Obligatory mouse thread

[axlebeans]

Hello everyone! I figure this is the best place to go for this.
Not only am I new to Solidworks, i'm new to CAD and engineering as a whole. I'm definitely what most of you guys would consider a youngster (only 20), and i'm looking to throw myself into this properly. Being our small shops only CAD guy, we just overhauled and replaced both my computer and monitors and are looking for the right mouse to match. I'd preferably like something with a programmable button or two that won't completely break the bank.
Appreciate your advice and glad to be here!

[mike miller]

I use a Logitech MX Master. 3DConnexion's CADmouse also gets pretty good press here, although I haven't tried it.

Anything with a clickable scrollwheel, forward-back buttons, and at least one programmable button works for me.

[mattpeneguy]

Programmable button or 2? How about 12 with a shift ring finger button, gives you 12 more assignments? (I bought it for double what it costs now, and thought it was a good price then)

[mattpeneguy]

Also on the g600, the scroll wheel button has assignments for when you push it left or right. That could be good for assigning the escape key and enter key? I don't use it for that, but a suggestion.

[axlebeans]

@mattpeneguy with that many buttons do you find yourself ever hitting the wrong ones or are they large enough you don't run into the issue? Appreciate the answers so far

[mike miller]

Programmable button or 2? How about 12 with a shift ring finger button, gives you 12 more assignments? (I bought it for double what it costs now, and thought it was a good price then)

image.png

How can you remember all those?!?! I have trouble remembering all my hotkeys, mouse gestures, Logitech mouse gestures, 3DConnexxion radial menus, and 3DConnexxion button commands (15 of those).

[mattpeneguy]

I have this taped to my monitor:

I really used it a lot when I was taking the certification exams.

[Glenn Schroeder]

I use a plain 5-button mouse on the right side, and one of these on the left. I'd hate to have to work without it.

I know you said something about not breaking the bank, so this one might be a better option. There is a programmable button on each side.

[axlebeans]

@Glenn Schroeder How does something like that work? Never seen a mouse like that, what's the advantages and disadvantages?

[mike miller]

@Glenn Schroeder How does something like that work? Never seen a mouse like that, what's the advantages and disadvantages?

Do you understand how the "six degrees of freedom" works? You have three directions of translation (linear movement in X,Y, &Z) and three directions of rotation. You treat the black knob in the center like the model. It gives you all six degrees of motion.

Push/pull = Zoom in/out
Push left/right = Pan left/right
Push Up/down = Pan up/down
Tilting left/right and in/out; as well as twisting rotates it in that respective direction.

They're fun to use and make model manipulation MUCH easier. I feel severely handicapped without it.

[axlebeans]

Do you understand how the "six degrees of freedom" works? You have three directions of translation (linear movement in X,Y, &Z) and three directions of rotation. You treat the black knob in the center like the model. It gives you all six degrees of motion.

Does the movement translate well into the drawing side of things or do you use it mostly for modelling? Definitely an interesting concept but I imagine it takes some getting used to

[axlebeans]

Guess I don't know how to quote things.

[Jaylin Hochstetler]

I use a Logitech MxMaster and a 3D Connexion compact mouse (I got the 3D mouse the other week and absolutely love it. I think it was around $120, well worth the buy.)
I have 8 gestures and 2 button clicks setup on my MxMaster.
This is what the gestures look like:

2021-03-16 12_48_40-Logitech Options.jpg (7.62 KiB) Viewed 16151 times

2021-03-16 12_49_01-Logitech Options.jpg (7.48 KiB) Viewed 16151 times

[mike miller]

Do you understand how the "six degrees of freedom" works? You have three directions of translation (linear movement in X,Y, &Z) and three directions of rotation. You treat the black knob in the center like the model. It gives you all six degrees of motion.

Does the movement translate well into the drawing side of things or do you use it mostly for modelling? Definitely an interesting concept but I imagine it takes some getting used to

Yes, but only three degrees of motion are available in drawings (pan X and Y, and zoom). I don't use it much in drawings because you can pan by MMB and dragging. Where it really shines is the two-handed control for rotating the model and selecting at the same time. This is especially useful for a feature such as fillets that require a lot of rotating and selection.

[Jaylin Hochstetler]

Guess I don't know how to quote things.

To quote someone's reply click the quote button in the top right corner of the reply:

2021-03-31 15_45_47-Obligatory mouse thread - CAD Forum — Mozilla Firefox.jpg (1.78 KiB) Viewed 16144 times

And make sure the "Disable BBcode" is not selected in the message area:

Edit to add:
You can also turn on the "BBcode by default" in User Control Panel > Board Preferences > Edit Posting Defaults:

[Glenn Schroeder]

@Glenn Schroeder How does something like that work? Never seen a mouse like that, what's the advantages and disadvantages?

It has a complete different function from a conventional mouse. You grab the little black knob, and when working with a 3d model whatever action you take with that knob translates to the model. If you pull it toward you it zooms in, if you lift it the model goes up, if you twist the knob the model spins, etc. There's definitely a learning curve, but it's well worth the effort.

I think one of the areas where I appreciate mine the most is when working in an Assembly. It's simple to rotate the model around with the 3d mouse to select faces for mating.

For drawings it works pretty much the same way, except of course for rotating.

I also use mine quite often when viewing PDF's. It works nicely for zooming in and out. On the rare occasions when I sit down at someone else's workstation I find myself reaching for it without even thinking about it.

One small word of caution if you decide to get one. I've learned to pretty much keep my hand off of it when working in a 2d sketch. It's very easy to inadvertently rotate the sketch just enough that selecting edges, vertices, etc for relations becomes difficult (they won't be right under your cursor where you think they are).

[axlebeans]

Guess I don't know how to quote things.

To quote someone's reply click the quote button in the top right corner of the reply:
2021-03-31 15_45_47-Obligatory mouse thread - CAD Forum — Mozilla Firefox.jpg
And make sure the "Disable BBcode" is not selected in the message area:
2021-03-31 15_46_03-(1) CAD Forum - Post a reply — Mozilla Firefox.jpg

Neat, thanks! Got a lot to learn.

[jcapriotti]

Programmable button or 2? How about 12 with a shift ring finger button, gives you 12 more assignments? (I bought it for double what it costs now, and thought it was a good price then)

image.png

Reminds me of my early days of using a digitizer and a 16 button puck in AutoCAD. I didn't use all the buttons, maybe about 4-5, and quickly moved to keyboard shortcuts which were faster IMO.

image.png (32.49 KiB) Viewed 16098 times

[matt]

I started using a trackball about 10 years ago. It takes less space on the desk, it's stationary, you're not pushing around a cord or batteries. All sorts of reasons I like this better than a mouse. You can program buttons, but I've got most of my programmable buttons on my spaceball.

[axlebeans]

Thank you everyone for the reccomendations, I managed to convince the big man to order me one of those MxMaster 3.0's and it's honestly the first time i've been excited for a computer mouse.

[Glenn Schroeder]

Thank you everyone for the reccomendations, I managed to convince the big man to order me one of those MxMaster 3.0's and it's honestly the first time i've been excited for a computer mouse.

Nice. Are you going to give a 3d mouse a try? I didn't mention it before, but I like mine so much that if it broke and they wouldn't buy me another one I'd buy it out of my own pocket.

[axlebeans]

Thank you everyone for the reccomendations, I managed to convince the big man to order me one of those MxMaster 3.0's and it's honestly the first time i've been excited for a computer mouse.

Nice. Are you going to give a 3d mouse a try? I didn't mention it before, but I like mine so much that if it broke and they wouldn't buy me another one I'd buy it out of my own pocket.

That might be something I get myself if I find it handy. I'm still doing some of my solidworks training and I feel it'd be better to get a feel for doing it with just an old fashioned mouse and keyboard and move into some tech like that when i'm more comfortable with the career and program

[mattpeneguy]

Thank you everyone for the reccomendations, I managed to convince the big man to order me one of those MxMaster 3.0's and it's honestly the first time i've been excited for a computer mouse.

Nice. Are you going to give a 3d mouse a try? I didn't mention it before, but I like mine so much that if it broke and they wouldn't buy me another one I'd buy it out of my own pocket.

That might be something I get myself if I find it handy. I'm still doing some of my solidworks training and I feel it'd be better to get a feel for doing it with just an old fashioned mouse and keyboard and move into some tech like that when i'm more comfortable with the career and program

If you are going to be doing CAD as a significant part of your work day, I'm with Glenn, get one sooner than later. It makes everything smoother, easier, and faster.

[Glenn Schroeder]

Thank you everyone for the reccomendations, I managed to convince the big man to order me one of those MxMaster 3.0's and it's honestly the first time i've been excited for a computer mouse.

Nice. Are you going to give a 3d mouse a try? I didn't mention it before, but I like mine so much that if it broke and they wouldn't buy me another one I'd buy it out of my own pocket.

That might be something I get myself if I find it handy. I'm still doing some of my solidworks training and I feel it'd be better to get a feel for doing it with just an old fashioned mouse and keyboard and move into some tech like that when i'm more comfortable with the career and program

It's of course up to you, but I'm with @mattpeneguy. I can understand not wanting to have to learn too much all at once, but don't wait so long that you develop habits you'll have trouble breaking later.

[bnemec]

I wanted a track ball a couple years ago; for the same reasons others here have stated. So I wanted a track ball mouse with as many buttons as possible, and a reasonable price. I didn't know if I wanted thumb or finger so that wasn't factored in. I settled on a Elecom Huge. I like it, I think, although I haven't used many other trackballs either. I don't like the driver, if I knew more about low level UBS HID Class stuff I'd be tempted to try my own, but I just don't have time for that. I have buttons for: Enter, Delete, Tab, arrow up, arrow down and of course right, left, scroll and middle button functions.


My first CAD job ci. 2005 would provide designers with SpaceBall 5000 and I was in love. Most of the guys didn't bother setting up more than one or two buttons, I use 10 regularly. I came back a few years ago and all they have are the little pucks with two buttons. So I'm using a SB5000 USB that I purchased myself during the interim years, have to use the old driver though as 3D Connexon doesn't support old hardware. Maybe someday I'll push for a new one with buttons.

I find the buttons are important, even more so as so many GUI are changing to "tablet style" where they forget to program tab stops and enter button on pages/forms where typing is required. So it's back and forth and I don't like that, either hands on mouse and Spaceball or on keyboard ,not back and forth. If I'm typing I navigate the form from the keyboard as much as possible. I always think back to the guy who taught me Mechanical Desktop during internship and following part time work, he could draw up whole parts and almost never take his hands off the keyboard. He'd been doing it so long that he knew all the hotkeys and shortcuts and made a few macros on top so nobody could hold a candle to the speed he could draw things up in AutoCAD.

[Matthew]

I use a Logitech M720 since a few years ago I was working on two computers simultaneously and it allowed me to navigate both as if they were a single computer with dual monitors. It also works well on a variety of surface types.

However, more importantly I think, is that I've got the three thumb buttons remapped to the 'S' key, spacebar, and ctrl keys. Unfortunately Solidworks won't let you directly map to the thumb buttons, so you need to do it though either the Logitech software, or a third party software like x-mouse. Additionally, mapping the functions through a third party software will treat clicking that button like the assigned key press. For that reason, I made an additional keyboard shortcut in Solidworks that was s+ctrl+alt+shift to assign the keyboard shortcut to so that pressing the button on the mouse won't be treated like pressing 's' when going through the file browse menus. Between the thumb button mapping and using gestures for the green check, red x, and esc, I rarely need to have my left hand on the keyboard.

[Frederick_Law]

Programmable button or 2? How about 12 with a shift ring finger button, gives you 12 more assignments?

Only 12?
How about 15?

Mouse key.jpg

Mouse key-01.jpg

[mattpeneguy]

@Frederick_Law,
I'll raise your 15 to at least 24 (not even counting the bottom view), by using the "G-Shift" ring finger button, I can assign all those top buttons new assignments if I wanted (I don't bother).

image.png

[SPerman]

If anyone knows of a trackball with more than the default buttons, I would love to hear about it. I've been a trackball guy for 2 decades.

[Frederick_Law]

@Frederick_Law,
I'll raise your 15 to at least 24 (not even counting the bottom view), by using the "G-Shift" ring finger button, I can assign all those top buttons new assignments if I wanted (I don't bother).
image.png

I found 12 key pad difficult to press.
You must have a small thumb

[bnemec]

If anyone knows of a trackball with more than the default buttons, I would love to hear about it. I've been a trackball guy for 2 decades.

@SPerman The only one I could find is Elecom HUGE. It has 8 buttons so that is nice, but the drivers stink IMO. Default to Japanese text sometimes which once you learn the buttons it can be fixed. Also tends to use a bit of processor according to task manager, later versions of driver were bad, like 12% all the time, after some web searching I read that older drivers not as bad so I'm running the first driver version that supports the device. Work bought one for me to try, I recently bought the wired version for home use. I just started track ball and very much like not moving it all around.
I would give the hardware a 8 or 9 /10. The driver I would say 3ish/10.

[MaineSpring]

If anyone knows of a trackball with more than the default buttons, I would love to hear about it. I've been a trackball guy for 2 decades.

@SPerman The only one I could find is Elecom HUGE. It has 8 buttons so that is nice, but the drivers stink IMO. Default to Japanese text sometimes which once you learn the buttons it can be fixed. Also tends to use a bit of processor according to task manager, later versions of driver were bad, like 12% all the time, after some web searching I read that older drivers not as bad so I'm running the first driver version that supports the device. Work bought one for me to try, I recently bought the wired version for home use. I just started track ball and very much like not moving it all around.
I would give the hardware a 8 or 9 /10. The driver I would say 3ish/10.

I'm with you in the search. I use an Elecom EX-G Pro with Mouse Assistant 5 mapping software. The ability to set an active-window dependent profile for SW and Fusion360 is addictive. BTW, if anyone has alternative software to recommend I'd love to hear of it, such as a Windows version of Steermouse.

Unfortunately I've found the Elecom ball to be fairly high-friction as compared with my Logitech M570. Can't traverse my screens with a flick of the thumb.

Does anyone have experience with Ploopy (https://www.ploopy.co/)? They have an 8 button mouse, but all their trackballs (including a thumball still in development) only have 5.

[DanPihlaja]

I really like the 3Dconnexion CADMouse and the Space Mouse Pro. I use both at the same time

https://3dconnexion.com/us/cadmouse/

https://3dconnexion.com/us/product/spacemouse-pro/

[SPerman]

I wonder how hard it would be to take a mouse and turn it into a trackball. I might have to buy one of those fancy ones and give it a try.

[bnemec]

I'm with you in the search. I use an Elecom EX-G Pro with Mouse Assistant 5 mapping software. The ability to set an active-window dependent profile for SW and Fusion360 is addictive. BTW, if anyone has alternative software to recommend I'd love to hear of it, such as a Windows version of Steermouse.

Unfortunately I've found the Elecom ball to be fairly high-friction as compared with my Logitech M570. Can't traverse my screens with a flick of the thumb.

Mine were that way for a while, it took a week or so to "wear in" and now it's like glass. Can send it across the 43" with a flick. I think it might be due to non-rolling element bearing need to polish a little?

[Marshall Wilson]

Logitech MX Ergo Thumb-Trackball. 5 programmable buttons (3 at thumb; 2 for left-right at scroll-wheel). Its been my main mouse for a couple of years now, a big step up in comfort from the Logitech MX. Only problem is when the balls get old they get "sticky." Even after cleaning the ball, it can be hard to make small adjustments, especially annoying when dimensioning drawings. This is especially an issue in humid weather, so I've been through about 8 new track-balls over the years.

I also have a SpaceMouse Enterprise, which is of great help. I've only had it about 3 years however, so I've spent enough time using Solidworks without it so I am not helpless when I work from other locations. It is especially useful when I'm in production mode - punching out part details for a design that's already in place; I find it very helpful when zooming around drawings especially.

And, to complete the package I have a 3dConnexion CADMouse connected as well, resting on a nice mousepad with wrist support. This helps (a) when I really have some detail work to do, and (b) when I want to just switch for awhile when my hand hurts.

[JuTu]

I use a Logitech M720 since a few years ago I was working on two computers simultaneously and it allowed me to navigate both as if they were a single computer with dual monitors. It also works well on a variety of surface types.

However, more importantly I think, is that I've got the three thumb buttons remapped to the 'S' key, spacebar, and ctrl keys. Unfortunately Solidworks won't let you directly map to the thumb buttons, so you need to do it though either the Logitech software, or a third party software like x-mouse. Additionally, mapping the functions through a third party software will treat clicking that button like the assigned key press. For that reason, I made an additional keyboard shortcut in Solidworks that was s+ctrl+alt+shift to assign the keyboard shortcut to so that pressing the button on the mouse won't be treated like pressing 's' when going through the file browse menus. Between the thumb button mapping and using gestures for the green check, red x, and esc, I rarely need to have my left hand on the keyboard.

I do have Logitech M720 aswell. It's awesome. But the next mouse will most likely be MX Master 3.

Anyway... the thing I wanted to say is that with with Logitech Options software you can create mouse profiles for specific applications. I have 'S', Esc and Ctrl+LMB assigned to my Solidworks. And the best thing is that Options works well. I haven't had much of a problems with Options not keeping up to my active application window. So everywhere else 1 and 2 buttons work by default as Forward and Back.

And Logitech Flow is so great. I wish I had keyboard which supports it but don't... And even without Flow with button 3 you can quickly change channel for different Unifying receiver.

I don't use mouse gestures via Options. In Solidworks I hav mapped about 11 and in Draftsight umm... 6 if I recall right

3D compact space mouse - I love it. It made Assemblies and Parts FLY! But useless everywhere else.

[DeanD]

Well for a mouse, I specify the Logitech G502 corded mouse for all workstations, just wish they made a left hand version too. Likewise as an additional input enhancement, the 3DConnexion Space Mouse Pro and Enterprise units. Have approximately 140 of the mice on desks and machining centers and 90+ of the 3DConnexion controllers. The users can configure the mouse and controllers to however best suits their habits and the ROI is substantial. Great for customizing in CAD, CAM and many other programs/apps as well. Not to mention both pieces of hardware are extremely reliable and robust.
No cordless units at all, as that takes additional support hardware (batteries 'n such) plus affords another potential source for being hacked should the input hardware be wireless. Response time, reliability and no worries of interference with other devices either.
Demo'd a couple of the 3DConnexion CAD mice for a while here and my end users couldn't get rid of them quick enough. The opinion here, mine included, is that 3DConnexion has a long way to go to get away from an '80's shaped and feeling mouse.

"When you don't know what you're doing, its best to do it quickly." ~Jace Robertson~

[DaveG]

Unfortunately I've found the Elecom ball to be fairly high-friction as compared with my Logitech M570. Can't traverse my screens with a flick of the thumb.

I like my Logitech M570, find it really comfortable, travel across three screens with the flick of a thumb. Yes, it would be nice if it had more buttons.

I liked the idea of the LOGITECH MX ERGO, I think that was supposed to have more durable switches than the M570, but then they put in a lithium ion battery for planned obsolescence!

[dgrippin]

I use a Logitech MX Master. 3DConnexion's CADmouse also gets pretty good press here, although I haven't tried it.

Anything with a clickable scrollwheel, forward-back buttons, and at least one programmable button works for me.

I second the Mx Master. it's treated me well and lasts forever before needing a recharge.

[zxys001]

...and in a few more years a new gen of users will say... why the heck do you need that mouse?

[jcapriotti]

...and in a few more years a new gen of users will say... why the heck do you need that mouse?

Old man rant
Never happen......keyboard and mouse are here to stay. Typing with a pen.... ......wait till he has to add a lot of notes. Touchscreens smudge and get dirty. I like my ipad pro and pen but just for doodling and general browsing. I get tired of constantly having to clean the screen. Imagine in a manufacturing environment, I've seen some nasty keyboards and monitors around work.

Cool software though. The major CAD tools could learn some stuff there on the UI and flow of commands from one to another.

[zxys001]

Old man rant
Never happen......keyboard and mouse are here to stay. Typing with a pen.... ......wait till he has to add a lot of notes. Touchscreens smudge and get dirty. I like my ipad pro and pen but just for doodling and general browsing. I get tired of constantly having to clean the screen. Imagine in a manufacturing environment, I've seen some nasty keyboards and monitors around work.

Cool software though. The major CAD tools could learn some stuff there on the UI and flow of commands from one to another.

..with that said... gotta have a good Friday gif of how a mouse could be used..

[SPerman]

Programmable button or 2? How about 12 with a shift ring finger button, gives you 12 more assignments? (I bought it for double what it costs now, and thought it was a good price then)

image.png

I bought one of these and it definitely isn't for me. If you want it, all I ask is that you cover shipping. Send me a PM.

[bnemec]

I bought one of these and it definitely isn't for me. If you want it, all I ask is that you cover shipping. Send me a PM.

I like the buttons but I tried a track ball and now I don't want to go back to dragging the device around. I've noticed that quality driver is almost harder to come by than quality hardware. I'd love to hear about hardware with open source drivers, even if third party.

[SPerman]

I've been a trackball user for 20+ years. I wish someone would make a trackball with extra buttons. I thought about trying to turn this mouse into a trackball, but I've got enough projects going on already.

[bnemec]

I've been a trackball user for 20+ years. I wish someone would make a trackball with extra buttons. I thought about trying to turn this mouse into a trackball, but I've got enough projects going on already.

The trackball I tried (and still using) is made by Elecom, model name "HUGE" I would say the hardware is good, maybe even very good. The driver is terrible, every new version was using more and more CPU, when it got over 15% CPU usage all of the time (at rest) in this workstation I was concerned. I had to go back and find the oldest version that supported the device, now it's better. I would highly recommend this device if there would be a good driver. The one work bought me is wireless, when I bought one for myself at home I opted for the corded version (KISS). Also, I could not find a Linux driver if that matters to you.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079F ... UTF8&psc=1

[lindsley60]

Hello. My Logitech MX Master 3 left button came off and won't snap back. I´m getting crazy, but the button just doesn't snap into place again and it comes loose. Any help?

[Jaylin Hochstetler]

Hello. My Logitech MX Master 3 left button came off and won't snap back. I´m getting crazy, but the button just doesn't snap into place again and it comes loose. Any help?

Buy a new one.

[SPerman]

CA glue?