To Work from Home or Not

[David Matula]

In 2020 I was asked if I was set up to work from home, I had a computer capable of running SolidWorks and internet at the house. So if I had to I could work from home. I did not want to then because I used the drive to work to get transition between home life, and work life. Then the big layoff happened and now all the safety stuff coming out about vid. If it is such a safety thing to get the shot why not take a couple of things that are real safety problems and cut them out. The most dangerous thing that we do every day is to get behind the wheel of a car and drive to work. If we are really responsible for "climate change" why not encourage people to work from home and not have to dive them polluting cars to and from work every day. Living away from the family has changed my mind about working from home. I could get me a small Morgan building put in a window unit and wire it up for an office so I could go out to the back yard and go to work. Then when it is time to go to lunch or the end of the day shut it down lock it up and walk into the house. Too bad I don't have room in the house to set up and office, but it would still separate work from home by doing that.
So why could we not do our jobs from the house? A little ingenuity to set up and office space, that we use just for doing work, and leave it for work, and the rest of the house for being the house. Think of the $$ that we could save by not having to have 2 cars, and all the $$ that we spend to operate them.
Should it be time that we start demanding to be able to work from home for Safety and the "Saving of the planet"?

[mike miller]

Just tell your employer that you self-identify as a remote worker.

[MJuric]

So why could we not do our jobs from the house? A little ingenuity to set up and office space, that we use just for doing work, and leave it for work, and the rest of the house for being the house. Think of the $$ that we could save by not having to have 2 cars, and all the $$ that we spend to operate them.
Should it be time that we start demanding to be able to work from home for Safety and the "Saving of the planet"?

Depends on what your job is. If you're purely an ME, EE or some other largely computer oriented position, then I see no issue with it. However most of the people that I now that are Engineers or have other similar jobs also deal with issues that come up from their work and you have to be on location to do that. "Bob, took the corner off this part can we still use it?" "This assembly doesn't fit together with that one the way it's supposed to" etc etc etc for the most part can't be done from home.

I've never had a job where I "Just designed stuff". I designed it, then it was built and I had to be present for all the questions, issues etc that followed the design process.

[zxys001]

There are so many benefits imho. Although, it's not for everyone and many organizations are just not setup to function. But, if you have a opportunity,.. go for it! Yeah, the $ and time you can save.. will make you realize why this has taken soooooo loooooong.
Working remotely is not as easy as it seems though.. much of it is focus and balancing your time well. It's too easy to watch the grass grow while sipping on some great coffee.
It's strange for me,... and what I find interesting out of all the years as being a independent consultant working from my home office... is reading about stories from you and others about this subject. It makes me smile because I hope this becomes more of everyone's everyday life and well being. I chose to be independent because I did not want to sit in a cubical and I wanted to work in a wider product range and disciplines. Strangely enough, this pandemic, makes me realize I've taken for granted the many years of freedom working remotely and visiting my clients once a week or month. It's all relative I guess,.. to what level or need/want in socialization/interaction... that is, I've missed the people, co-workers, teams, meetings, driving, lunches,.... Dang,.. there's some weird green grass growing in my yard... sipping coffee.

[SPerman]

Being an independent contractor is different from being a salaried employee working from home. If you spend too much time sipping coffee and watching the grass grow, you don't get paid.

[MJuric]

It's too easy to watch the grass grow while sipping on some great coffee.

This is exactly why most companies have not and are hesitant to go this route. Despite people declaring "I'm just as productive from home" the fact is that most people are not. Walk around any company and just watch all the things people do to NOT work. Do you think that gets better or worse when there are no co-workers, no supervisor and have added distractions like "Oh yeah I need to take out the trash!"

This is also why so many people are pushing for it and like it. They don't have to actually work as much.

It's a bout checks and balances and a good chunk of that goes away once someone is in the privacy of their home.

[matt]

Not everybody is cut out to do it. The first time I tried it, I went a little crazy. I tried it again 10 years later, and it all worked out. The big thing is that at home you spend a lot of time by yourself, and much less time with other people. So you have to be comfortable with that. Plus, you have to be motivated and organized. This is of course in addition to having all of the equipment and setup that you need.

I've talked about topics around working at home and contracting on my blog...

https://dezignstuff.com/how-to-work-at-home/
https://dezignstuff.com/moving-back-to-the-office/
https://dezignstuff.com/making-the-most ... ona-style/
https://dezignstuff.com/how-to-become-a-cad-contractor/
https://dezignstuff.com/making-a-living ... ad-jockey/

[SPerman]

I work from home on Fridays. I can't count the number of times I've said "It's been a busy week. I'm only going to put in a half day." And then by Sunday night I've worked 12 hours instead of 4.

[zxys001]

This is exactly why most companies have not and are hesitant to go this route. Despite people declaring "I'm just as productive from home" the fact is that most people are not. Walk around any company and just watch all the things people do to NOT work. Do you think that gets better or worse when there are no co-workers, no supervisor and have added distractions like "Oh yeah I need to take out the trash!"

This is also why so many people are pushing for it and like it. They don't have to actually work as much.

It's a bout checks and balances and a good chunk of that goes away once someone is in the privacy of their home.

well, that's a classic reason why not too and for some individuals, sure, they may not have the will to work by themselves.
Once you allow an individual who desires to take on responsibility without supervision, the myth fades.......................
again, it's not for everyone or company.
Salary/Supervisor... yeah, seeing a salary manager standing over a employee(s) with a coffee cup in their hand is bringing back the other reason.... why I flew the cuckoo's nest. Those coffee caring managers are so effective at getting people to do things.... faster/better... really? LOL!

[MJuric]

Once you allow an individual who desires to take on responsibility without supervision, the myth fades.......................

I'm just saying that for every person that "Wants to take responsibility" there are probably five that want to take advantage.

I've been hiring/firing and managing people for 21 of the last 26 years. Yes some people have a sense of responsibility to do good work regardless of condition. That however is the exception rather than the rule, certainly in my experience.

I'm certainly not going to say that everyone will go home and do nothing but a WHOLE lot of them will go home and do less, many, MUCH less. To the contrary a few will end up doing more.

[zxys001]

I'm just saying that for every person that "Wants to take responsibility" there are probably five that want to take advantage.

I've been hiring/firing and managing people for 21 of the last 26 years. Yes some people have a sense of responsibility to do good work regardless of condition. That however is the exception rather than the rule, certainly in my experience.

I'm certainly not going to say that everyone will go home and do nothing but a WHOLE lot of them will go home and do less, many, MUCH less. To the contrary a few will end up doing more.

No doubt. We will then get into ethical principles, responsibility and accountability.

[David Matula]

With the use of cell phones and cameras most of them questions that you need to go to the shop for about stuff not working could be done via video chats, and stuff. On the rare occasion heading into the office to check out how things are going in the shop could be scheduled. The main thing is that if companies and the government are so considered with our safety over getting a shot, and about "Global Warming" why not take away the most dangerous thing that we do every day witch is getting behind the wheel of a vehicle and driving.
A dedication to getting the job done on time would have to be up to the people working from home. If that is not there then it would be about the same as if they were not getting the job done at work. It would all be a matter of learning to get the job done without the distractions of the house as in setting up a proper work space. I think that I could be more productive with out the distractions of the coworkers that like to socialize more anyway. The big thing would be to have the setup for a secure network and proper procedures for getting new personnel trained and getting the proper equipment to them to be able to do the jobs. Then collecting it if you have to let someone go.

[MJuric]

With the use of cell phones and cameras most of them questions that you need to go to the shop for about stuff not working could be done via video chats, and stuff.

I can say that I do things every day that would take three four times as long to do via "Video Chat" if not impossible. Diagnosing problems is really difficult to do over video.

A dedication to getting the job done on time would have to be up to the people working from home. If that is not there then it would be about the same as if they were not getting the job done at work.

This is like saying that people would drive the same if cops were not on the road. Being in a work environment where your co-workers and supervisors is like working with cops around. Being at home is like working with no cops. In fact it's worse because you know there is zero chance of a cop suddenly appearing in your house like they tend to do on the highway.

The next time you're out on the highway take a look at how many hit the brakes when they see a cop....those same people are not working as hard at home as they would at work

[jcapriotti]

This is like saying that people would drive the same if cops were not on the road. Being in a work environment where your co-workers and supervisors is like working with cops around. Being at home is like working with no cops. In fact it's worse because you know there is zero chance of a cop suddenly appearing in your house like they tend to do on the highway.

This is because highway speeds are too low. Cars are way safer at higher speeds than the cars that were on the road when the current speed limits were originally set. Most fairly busy interstates have the majority of traffic travelling at 10-15 mph over the speed limit. I read something about how the majority of people on the road will natural drive at a "comfortable" speed and that that should be how a speed limit is set for a given road. That would eat into the revenue stream of police however which has no desire to stop speeding.

The next time you're out on the highway take a look at how many hit the brakes when they see a cop....those same people are not working as hard at home as they would at work

You I guess those criminals running from the cops work harder than the rest of us

[jcapriotti]

Just tell your employer that you self-identify as a remote worker.

Then you can do stuff like this.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/these-peop ... 1628866529

[MJuric]

This is because highway speeds are too low. Cars are way safer at higher speeds than the cars that were on the road when the current speed limits were originally set. Most fairly busy interstates have the majority of traffic travelling at 10-15 mph over the speed limit. I read something about how the majority of people on the road will natural drive at a "comfortable" speed and that that should be how a speed limit is set for a given road. That would eat into the revenue stream of police however which has no desire to stop speeding.

Ever drive on the highway at 75-80 MPH and then get off onto a 35-45mph road. Suddenly you're driving 50-55 in a 30MPH zone because "It feels natural"

You can get comfortable with driving a car length or two behind the car in front of you while driving 70-80 MPH. That doesn't mean it's "The right speed" or "The right way to drive"

I don't in general disagree with you, I just don't think it's a good data set to support that "People will do the right thing".

No cops and the average speed on the road goes up, up and up regardless of safety and comfort. The same applies here. The amount of work getting done at home would go down down down as people get comfortable.

Again, not for all people, but a very good majority.

I also tend to see that the people pushing hardest to work from home are also those that would definitely work less at home. I heard an interview on the radio about this and the reasons for "Working from home" was "Well I get to spend time with my kids all day while I'm working" "I can get things done around the house when I'm working" and on and on the person went. The entire time never questioning the fact that while you're doing those other things you're either not working at all or not giving work your full attention.

[AlexLachance]

When one day you're sick, get yourself a remote connection and try it out. If you're autonomous, you shouldn't have trouble but if you depend on people then you most likely will.

I worked at home for a month or two because of the covid stuff and I was happy to come back in the office to work. Of course it's pleasant to work from home, but there are limitations that make things a little rougher. If you like chatting with people, you won't enjoy working from home.

[jcapriotti]

Ever drive on the highway at 75-80 MPH and then get off onto a 35-45mph road. Suddenly you're driving 50-55 in a 30MPH zone because "It feels natural"

Honestly I have no idea what the speed limit is on most side roads that I'm unfamiliar with. Eventually you see a sign but not always right away. I would drive at what felt comfortable and what the surrounding traffic is driving at.

You can get comfortable with driving a car length or two behind the car in front of you while driving 70-80 MPH. That doesn't mean it's "The right speed" or "The right way to drive"

Agreed, I'm not advocating for trusting people to not break the law. I was just repeating something I read regarding how do we figure out what speed we should set for a given road. The example they used was an old 2 lane highway up in Canada that was low, like 30kph or something as it was a winding stretch of road. The Olympics came and they reworked and widen the road to 5 lanes, but didn't change the speed limit. All of sudden it became a speed trap with the local law enforcement racking up tickets. Everyone was going faster because it felt comfortable since the road was wider and safer than before. A lot of speed limits were also set for cars in the 50s-80s and today's cars are far safer.....of course there was the national 55mph law which most can agree is too slow.

I also tend to see that the people pushing hardest to work from home are also those that would definitely work less at home. I heard an interview on the radio about this and the reasons for "Working from home" was "Well I get to spend time with my kids all day while I'm working" "I can get things done around the house when I'm working" and on and on the person went. The entire time never questioning the fact that while you're doing those other things you're either not working at all or not giving work your full attention.

During my year at home with the Covid office shutdown, I tended to work more hours (12+) than in the office (8-10). I know because my wife was on me about it as I would start at roughly 8am and sometimes be still working at 8pm. Yeah, I did break to spend time with family, do some dishes, or a few misc house chores. But on the flip side, no 30 mins watercooler discussions or someone coming over to my office to talk about their weekend or news, etc. I think it's kind of a wash.

If someone doesn't want to work, they will find a way, whether in the office or at home. I can't count the number of times I've seen the same pair of shoes in the same bathroom stall for over an hour and a phone clicking away. Or people taking numerous smoke breaks outside and talking with their fellow smokers for a while. People talking in the halls for long stretches. etc.

[MJuric]

During my year at home with the *bat-fever* office shutdown, I tended to work more hours (12+) than in the office (8-10). I know because my wife was on me about it as I would start at roughly 8am and sometimes be still working at 8pm. Yeah, I did break to spend time with family, do some dishes, or a few misc house chores. But on the flip side, no 30 mins watercooler discussions or someone coming over to my office to talk about their weekend or news, etc. I think it's kind of a wash.

If someone doesn't want to work, they will find a way, whether in the office or at home. I can't count the number of times I've seen the same pair of shoes in the same bathroom stall for over an hour and a phone clicking away. Or people taking numerous smoke breaks outside and talking with their fellow smokers for a while. People talking in the halls for long stretches. etc.

I kind of had the same experience as you. To add to it I'd have an hour or too open on the weekend and sometimes I'd end up working...I don't think that's normal

I also agree that people will do anything to get out of work, a lot of people. Those people, which there are a lot of, will do WAY less at home then at work. At home you can spend an hour anywhere doing anything. Hard to spend multiple hours sitting on the toilet every day.

[SPerman]

I set the cruise control 7 over and have passed cops both on the side of the road and driving. (The cops driving were usually out of district.) I haven't been pulled over yet, when following this policy.

[jcapriotti]

I set the cruise control 7 over and have passed cops both on the side of the road and driving. (The cops driving were usually out of district.) I haven't been pulled over yet, when following this policy.

If I did that, I'd be the slowest one on the interstate....general flow of traffic here seems to be around 85. And you still get passed by quite a few cars. Granted, this stretch of interstate is not busy even during rush hour as its thru a rural area.

[SPerman]

When I go visit family in Atlanta, I go the speed the rest of the pack is going, which is usually in the range you are referring to.

[MJuric]

If I did that, I'd be the slowest one on the interstate....general flow of traffic here seems to be around 85. And you still get passed by quite a few cars. Granted, this stretch of interstate is not busy even during rush hour as its thru a rural area.

Depends on level of congestion. This "Switch" typically occurs around the same time you can no longer use cruise control because of traffic. So if you are surrounded by cars, you drive the speed of traffic. If you're able to set the cruise and not be turning on and off and touching the breaks all the time I try to stay 1MPH under 10 over the speed limit. Around here that's 79 anyway on the highway.

[jcapriotti]

Depends on level of congestion. This "Switch" typically occurs around the same time you can no longer use cruise control because of traffic. So if you are surrounded by cars, you drive the speed of traffic. If you're able to set the cruise and not be turning on and off and touching the breaks all the time I try to stay 1MPH under 10 over the speed limit. Around here that's 79 anyway on the highway.

Even in Germany on the autobahn, there are speed limits in congested areas. If recall correctly, it's a digital sign and changes with the day. I'm sure we have some German users here that can clear it up.

[David Matula]

People that if given the opportunity to be able to work from home, will either have it taken away or if under performing could be looking at finding a new place to work. It is just that simple. Setting reasonable deadlines, and setting up proper expectations for the job at hand would be what is needed. Give someone two weeks to do a 2 hour job, and another person 2 hours to do a two week job, that is dependent on other people having their stuff together.