Sheet metal helical curve with flanges

[Halasox]

Is SE able to create a 180deg helical curve with flanges that can be then flatten. The incline from one end to the other is about 2inches / 50mm. Have tried to create a surface, then thicken and the use "thin part to sheet metal". But it's not working!

Appreciate any ideas on how to approach this or if this is even possible in SE!

[SPerman]

Is this different than your last question?
https://www.cadforum.net/viewtopic.php? ... nge#p24695

[Halasox]

Yes, the previous was about how to get the flanges on the curve with no incline. So, the curve was flat on the ground. But now I am looking to have a curve with an incline from one end to the other (helical)!

[berg_lauritz]

are you designing a looping for cars?

[Halasox]

No I am just evaluating the software SE and comparing it to SW what is possible. In SW this is also not doable the flanges need to be separate body to flatten it but thought SE can! And hope some expert knows the answer.

[KennyG]

So, this can be done in Solid Edge, but you cannot use the typical Sheet Metal Flat Pattern command. I actually did this in SE 2023 in Part using a helical curve and a cross section representing the sheet metal shape to sweep along it, then used the Sweep command to create the solid. Then I went to the Tools ribbon, selected Flatten which will automatically invoke the Blank Body command. Went through that to generate a flat pattern.

I tried the same in SE 2022, but the Blank Body failed to flatten it. SE 2023 was successful.

[Halasox]

So, this can be done in Solid Edge, but you cannot use the typical Sheet Metal Flat Pattern command. I actually did this in SE 2023 in Part using a helical curve and a cross section representing the sheet metal shape to sweep along it, then used the Sweep command to create the solid. Then I went to the Tools ribbon, selected Flatten which will automatically invoke the Blank Body command. Went through that to generate a flat pattern.

I tried the same in SE 2022, but the Blank Body failed to flatten it. SE 2023 was successful.

Just tested that and it works in SE 2023 community edition. It's not native sheet metal, but once flatten it gives pretty accurate result. I know this can be done with surfaces both in SW and SE, but this is on another level with solid bodies. Thanks

SE

[bnemec]

No I am just evaluating the software SE and comparing it to SW what is possible. In SW this is also not doable the flanges need to be separate body to flatten it but thought SE can! And hope some expert knows the answer.

I'm certainly no expert, but after being on Solid Edge for ~8 years combined, the company had been using it for over a couple of decades where ~45% of our part files were .psm, before switching to Solidworks I can say with good confidence that Solidworks is still about 5 - 10 years behind Solid Edge in Sheet Metal functionality.

You should try out the Dimple feature!

[KennyG]

Just tested that and it works in SE 2023 community edition. It's not native sheet metal, but once flatten it gives pretty accurate result. I know this can be done with surfaces both in SW and SE, but this is on another level with solid bodies. Thanks

SE

Think of the SE Sheet Metal environment as a tool for sheet metal you will run through a punch press and then break or fold. Roll forming is valid too if linear. Anything formed or non-linear is better done in the Part environment as those tools will probably be needed and you can Switch to Sheet Metal if you need something like the Dimple command that @bnemec mentioned. Likewise, if working with bent sheet metal in the Sheet Metal environment, you can Switch to Part to do those "punch" features you need, but know they will not flatten (nor do they really need to) with the regular Flat Pattern tool.

The Blank Body command is specifically designed for formed sheet metal and will do it's best to account for stretching due to drawing of the metal. I've heard it called the "Flatten Anything" tool.

[Halasox]

Thanks all for the tips will try this out!

1. Is there any need to use the .psm sheet metal template? What are the benefits of saving in this format. As I could just have .prt and the switch between when needed!

2. What's a good workflow when using both synchronous and ordered. First sync -> ordered -> sync or opposite way?

3. And is there a way in SE 2023 to make the icons bigger except windows scaling?

[bnemec]

Thanks all for the tips will try this out!

1. Is there any need to use the .psm sheet metal template? What are the benefits of saving in this format. As I could just have .prt and the switch between when needed!

I don't know why they still keep with the .psm file type. The file can be switched back and forth. From writing our auto DXF add-in I learned that there's a meta-data tag in the file to identify it at sheet metal or not. Cannot go by the file type any more.

2. What's a good workflow when using both synchronous and ordered. First sync -> ordered -> sync or opposite way?

Oh, boy! Here we go. I'm not allowed to speak on this topic here.

3. And is there a way in SE 2023 to make the icons bigger except windows scaling?

I only have 2019, and it states that the system scaling is only option. Note that SE implemented system scaling much differently (and possibly better) than Solidworks. I found that new users benefited from keeping the tool-tip videos on. for a while. Typically, large icon is more of a beginner mode, then once memorization and muscle memory kicks in users want smaller icons for more workspace.

[Halasox]

I don't know why they still keep with the .psm file type. The file can be switched back and forth. From writing our auto DXF add-in I learned that there's a meta-data tag in the file to identify it at sheet metal or not. Cannot go by the file type any more.


Oh, boy! Here we go. I'm not allowed to speak on this topic here.



I only have 2019, and it states that the system scaling is only option. Note that SE implemented system scaling much differently (and possibly better) than Solidworks. I found that new users benefited from keeping the tool-tip videos on. for a while. Typically, large icon is more of a beginner mode, then once memorization and muscle memory kicks in users want smaller icons for more workspace.

image.png

OK, thanks for the input and help.

[Jaylin Hochstetler]

Thanks all for the tips will try this out!

1. Is there any need to use the .psm sheet metal template? What are the benefits of saving in this format. As I could just have .prt and the switch between when needed!

We still use the .psm b/c it's a lot easier for automation (the SE Housekeeper https://github.com/rmcanany/SolidEdgeHousekeeper, this is an extremely valuable tool) and we have our Sheet Metal Template setup with the gauge table preloaded which makes it faster

2. What's a good workflow when using both synchronous and ordered. First sync -> ordered -> sync or opposite way?

I usually do the basic shape in sync then I do the break corners or other detailing ordered, I also do any slots, patterns, and closed corners in ordered as those can all be a little finicky in Sync.

3. And is there a way in SE 2023 to make the icons bigger except windows scaling?

That I don't know. I have not messed with 2023 yet.

FYI,
We have recently made the transition from SW to SE. Most of our stuff is migrated by now. And I will attest it was well worth the pain of migrating. We do a lot formed sheet metal design which is where sync really shines. So we use sync very heavily, which makes migration fairly easy. If we wouldn't use Sync much I don't think it would have been worth it b/c SE Ordered kinda sucks compared to SW.
SE Draft also outdoes SW by a long shot, esp. their BOMs.

[Jaylin Hochstetler]

I don't know why they still keep with the .psm file type. The file can be switched back and forth. From writing our auto DXF add-in I learned that there's a meta-data tag in the file to identify it at sheet metal or not. Cannot go by the file type any more.

I did not realize that. What is it called?

I checked and I noticed it adds these Custom Properties when you create a Sheet Metal feature in a Part file. Do you use one of those?

The nice thing about using a different extension though is for filtering like this:

It doesn't have to go through all the files and check for a certain file property.

[Jaylin Hochstetler]

we have our Sheet Metal Template setup with the gauge table preloaded which makes it faster

I just realized this is a mute point b/c you can do the same thing in your Part Template.

[Jaylin Hochstetler]

No I am just evaluating the software SE and comparing it to SW what is possible. In SW this is also not doable the flanges need to be separate body to flatten it but thought SE can! And hope some expert knows the answer.

There's lots of good info of the 2 in this thread https://www.cadforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=70

[bnemec]

I did not realize that. What is it called?

I checked and I noticed it adds these Custom Properties when you create a Sheet Metal feature in a Part file. Do you use one of those?
image.png
The nice thing about using a different extension though is for filtering like this:
image.png
It doesn't have to go through all the files and check for a certain file property.

I don't know what the housekeeper is, sorry.

You can filter on file extension type, but if I'm not mistaken your results will not be accurate. There can be sheet metal parts in a .par file and regular bodies/parts in a .psm file. The latter not as common as the former. When editing a solid part file the user can convert to sheet metal and have a sheet metal part in a .par file. So filtering by .psm may very well miss sheet metal models. Maybe this doesn't matter for housekeeper usage, I don't know. I can tell you it sucks when trying to replace one model for another in a bunch of assemblies, IIRC Design Manager would not let me replace a .par with a .psm.

[Halasox]

FYI,
We have recently made the transition from SW to SE. Most of our stuff is migrated by now. And I will attest it was well worth the pain of migrating. We do a lot formed sheet metal design which is where sync really shines. So we use sync very heavily, which makes migration fairly easy. If we wouldn't use Sync much I don't think it would have been worth it b/c SE Ordered kinda sucks compared to SW.
SE Draft also outdoes SW by a long shot, esp. their BOMs.

I agree SE feels more stable with draft then SW and also when it comes to larger assemblies. At the end I decided to go with NX! It can handle even better larger assemblies and feels snappier.

[Jaylin Hochstetler]

I don't know what the housekeeper is, sorry.

You can filter on file extension type, but if I'm not mistaken your results will not be accurate. There can be sheet metal parts in a .par file and regular bodies/parts in a .psm file. The latter not as common as the former. When editing a solid part file the user can convert to sheet metal and have a sheet metal part in a .par file. So filtering by .psm may very well miss sheet metal models. Maybe this doesn't matter for housekeeper usage, I don't know. I can tell you it sucks when trying to replace one model for another in a bunch of assemblies, IIRC Design Manager would not let me replace a .par with a .psm.

It works fine for us because we have a strict rule that all sheet metal parts have to be .psm, until someone doesn't abide by the rule...

Do you remember what meta-data you used to find sheet metal in .par files?

[bnemec]

It works fine for us because we have a strict rule that all sheet metal parts have to be .psm, until someone doesn't abide by the rule...

Do you remember what meta-data you used to find sheet metal in .par files?

edit: see Kenny's response below, it's much better and doesn't require API.

I had to look it up.

https://docs.plm.automation.siemens.com ... tants.html

and this example can be found in the navigation tree: Programmer's Guide > Solid Edge > Determining Document Type

https://docs.plm.automation.siemens.com ... tType.html

[KennyG]

It works fine for us because we have a strict rule that all sheet metal parts have to be .psm, until someone doesn't abide by the rule...

Do you remember what meta-data you used to find sheet metal in .par files?

Jaylin, once a PAR becomes sheet metal, it will have all the sheet metal bend variables exposed as Custom Properties which can be searched on:
Material Thickness
Bend Radius
Relief Depth/Length
Neutral Factor

Also, undocumented but works... Files are identical and file types determine the environment. You can change the PAR file extension to PSM to make SE open it in the Sheet Metal environment by default if it is in fact now a sheet metal file just for sanities sake. You can always switch back and forth using the Switch To command.

[Jaylin Hochstetler]

edit: see Kenny's response below, it's much better and doesn't require API.

I had to look it up.

https://docs.plm.automation.siemens.com ... tants.html

and this example can be found in the navigation tree: Programmer's Guide > Solid Edge > Determining Document Type

https://docs.plm.automation.siemens.com ... tType.html

Interesting. That's what I use to make sure the file they have open is the correct type. I didn't realize that will recognize a Sheet Metal .par file.