Does anyone actually use 3DExperience in a productive manner?

[mattpeneguy]

I hesitate to participate much in this discussion, but out of curiosity I went over there. I couldn't be all THAT bad, right? I got signed in easily enough. I got to vote in the "who's doing this right" poll. That was fun. After that I try to browse around, which is difficult enough, and all I see is a wall of hate. People really don't like what's happening. And then my "bell" had a couple of dings in it, so I clicked on it:
image.png
Huh?
I haven't been over there to ask for anything. I don't think I've posted anything at all. And suddenly I'm an author?

I kinda feel bad for everybody. Employees. Customers. Everybody. This has the look of something that just didn't get much public discussion. It's like you're in someone's private nightmare. it all means something to someone, but figuring it out based on what most of us know about social media and public forums ... It's a little embarrassing.

The public outcry from the V6 problem about 10 years ago eventually caused a lot of backpedaling at DS, and I imagine someone or some group wound up with a lot of egg on their face. But this. This is even worse than 10 years ago. They are going to start losing customers if this is the new direction of the company. It's painful to watch. I don't even know how they would start to correct something like this. It's not like they missed by an inch. Somebody had an idea that just didn't translate into reality very well.

@matt,
I know you've been busy with this forum, yes you are correct. People aren't happy over there. And they haven't migrated but a tiny portion of the old forum over there. I made a few test searches under my name and then I tried Deepak...Because let's face it, yeah I contributed to the old forum, but half of it was sarcasm...allright, allright...most of it was sarcasm... But, Deepak has a VAST amount of VERY useful and informative posts and I only got 5 results from a simple search for "Gupta". (not fair to mention you Deepak and not ping ya, @gupta9665 ).

I agree the screenshot you posted is off putting to say the least, but they had to delete peoples accounts to reassociate them to the forum posts or something like that...and if that were the only problem, I think it'd be forgivable, but I agree, it's just one more thing piled on.

AFAIK, what they've got over there is SO much closer to the SW subreddit than this forum. If us forum users preferred that, we'd have been on the subreddit...So, it's going to be interesting to watch the water over at the Swamp circle the toilet bowl...The part I'm most sad about is that the new users will probably end up there asking questions to deaf ears, at least for a while, until enough content gets here to guide them here. The SW forum really helped me a LOT when I first learned SW.

Completely tangent to the subject at hand I see new "align" and "float" tags, I'll have to play with them and see what they do...Try getting something like that over at the Swamp and see it sent to R&D where it'll linger for who knows how long...But, I'm not bitter...

Oh, I posted this in the old forum, DS tried to fit the round peg that is a forum into the square hole which is their platform:

CQ1m.gif (1.41 MiB) Viewed 17065 times

[Glenn Schroeder]

I hesitate to participate much in this discussion, but out of curiosity I went over there. I couldn't be all THAT bad, right? I got signed in easily enough. I got to vote in the "who's doing this right" poll. That was fun. After that I try to browse around, which is difficult enough, and all I see is a wall of hate. People really don't like what's happening. And then my "bell" had a couple of dings in it, so I clicked on it:
image.png
Huh?
I haven't been over there to ask for anything. I don't think I've posted anything at all. And suddenly I'm an author?

I kinda feel bad for everybody. Employees. Customers. Everybody. This has the look of something that just didn't get much public discussion. It's like you're in someone's private nightmare. it all means something to someone, but figuring it out based on what most of us know about social media and public forums ... It's a little embarrassing.

The public outcry from the V6 problem about 10 years ago eventually caused a lot of backpedaling at DS, and I imagine someone or some group wound up with a lot of egg on their face. But this. This is even worse than 10 years ago. They are going to start losing customers if this is the new direction of the company. It's painful to watch. I don't even know how they would start to correct something like this. It's not like they missed by an inch. Somebody had an idea that just didn't translate into reality very well.

Admitting they made a big mistake, and moving the old forum over to a platform that actually works would be a good start. Don't get me wrong, I like it here, and wouldn't leave even if they did, but I've always respected people who can admit it when they make a mistake instead of forging ahead hoping it will somehow be okay.

If you're in a hole it's usually not a good idea to keep digging.

[jcapriotti]

Admitting they made a big mistake, and moving the old forum over to a platform that actually works would be a good start. Don't get me wrong, I like it here, and wouldn't leave even if they did, but I've always respected people who can admit it when they make a mistake instead of forging ahead hoping it will somehow be okay.

If you're in a hole it's usually not a good idea to keep digging.

You know C level executives can't admit mistakes.

[MJuric]

Admitting they made a big mistake, and moving the old forum over to a platform that actually works would be a good start. Don't get me wrong, I like it here, and wouldn't leave even if they did, but I've always respected people who can admit it when they make a mistake instead of forging ahead hoping it will somehow be okay.

If you're in a hole it's usually not a good idea to keep digging.

You know C level executives can't admit mistakes.

Good ones can and in fact the really good ones do it willingly, quickly and sincerely. I also don't think this is a "C" level executive thing. Society as a whole has somehow put the status of "Being in error" on the same level as committing murder or other capital offenses. People dig in on things like which way the toilet paper roll should go as if their life depended on it.

End result is we spend more energy on "Finding who's wrong" and "Who's to blame" then actually fixing the problems.

[DennisD]

I hesitate to participate much in this discussion, but out of curiosity I went over there. I couldn't be all THAT bad, right? I got signed in easily enough. I got to vote in the "who's doing this right" poll. That was fun. After that I try to browse around, which is difficult enough, and all I see is a wall of hate. People really don't like what's happening. And then my "bell" had a couple of dings in it, so I clicked on it:
image.png
Huh?
I haven't been over there to ask for anything. I don't think I've posted anything at all. And suddenly I'm an author?

I kinda feel bad for everybody. Employees. Customers. Everybody. This has the look of something that just didn't get much public discussion. It's like you're in someone's private nightmare. it all means something to someone, but figuring it out based on what most of us know about social media and public forums ... It's a little embarrassing.

The public outcry from the V6 problem about 10 years ago eventually caused a lot of backpedaling at DS, and I imagine someone or some group wound up with a lot of egg on their face. But this. This is even worse than 10 years ago. They are going to start losing customers if this is the new direction of the company. It's painful to watch. I don't even know how they would start to correct something like this. It's not like they missed by an inch. Somebody had an idea that just didn't translate into reality very well.

Admitting they made a big mistake, and moving the old forum over to a platform that actually works would be a good start. Don't get me wrong, I like it here, and wouldn't leave even if they did, but I've always respected people who can admit it when they make a mistake instead of forging ahead hoping it will somehow be okay.

If you're in a hole it's usually not a good idea to keep digging.

Glenn, you are bang on about admitting a mistake and fixing it!!

I don't think I am bound by an NDA so I'm going say that I am included in a focus group of about eight forum users along with Ryan Priddy and Suzanne Locke to discuss the new forum. We have had bi-weekly meetings for the last three months. We only met a couple of times before that last fall. From the start we were all over them about forcing this mess on us, asking waaaaay too late for any input, and then not being able to do anything significant about it. We all know Ryan is only the messenger in all of this and we've treated him with that respect, but we have not been shy (you guys know me, right?) about telling them what we think.

Two weeks ago in the meeting I asked point-blank if such things as the Google indexing were technically possible. Ryan finally said it was, but that it was not going to happen. I confirmed then that everything about the 3DSwamp forum was based on decisions by people at DSS/SWX and not by technical limitations. Ryan did confirm that and added that the decisions were coming from from VERY high up in DSS. VERY VERY high up, but he stopped short of naming the CEO.

As soon as the meeting was over I got on the forum and posted this:

And we DID make some noise! And just a day or so later WE DID GET THEM TO INCLUDE GOOGLE INDEXING!! Alin is part of that focus group and just a couple of days ago validated that our noise was what got their attention. It was a great point that decisions are different from technical impossibilities. Decisions can be changed and we got a big bad decision changed!

Glenn, you (I hope) would be proud of me. In yesterday's meeting just as we were ending I told Ryan that there comes a time when a company has to admit that what they did, or tried to do, was an abject failure and that they would be much better off fixing it by scrapping what they've got and starting over. They don't even have to publicly admit they "goofed", just fix it, despite how much time and money they have put into the failed mess. EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THAT GROUP AGREED (although Suzanne was muted and without video and Ryan was the recipient).

I honestly want the 3DSwamp forum to be a great forum, but I don't think DSS will get out their own way and do enough to fix it.

[jcapriotti]

I honestly want the 3DSwamp forum to be a great forum, but I don't think DSS will get out their own way and do enough to fix it.

No doubt this decision came from high up. I can see the thought process, they want the SolidWorks userbase to buy in the 3dx works version and the 3dx platform because "Its the future!!!......of our revenue stream". So hey, let them use it as their community forum and they will see how great it is and maybe we can upsell them from that old tired desktop app to our new snazzy nebulous cloud tool. Surely our built in cloud collaboration UI isn't much different than whatever those users do on that bulletin forum thing or whatever it's called.

[DennisD]

I honestly want the 3DSwamp forum to be a great forum, but I don't think DSS will get out their own way and do enough to fix it.

No doubt this decision came from high up. I can see the thought process, they want the SolidWorks userbase to buy in the 3dx works version and the 3dx platform because "Its the future!!!......of our revenue stream". So hey, let them use it as their community forum and they will see how great it is and maybe we can upsell them from that old tired desktop app to our new snazzy nebulous cloud tool. Surely our built in cloud collaboration UI isn't much different than whatever those users do on that bulletin forum thing or whatever it's called.

All the crap forced on us came from VERY high up. That is why I was calling out Gian Paolo Bossi and Bernard Charles. Yes, they endorsed the stinking pile of bad decisions.

If those two offered to buy me a beer I'd hold out until they first said they made a mistake and wanted to correct it and wanted to hear from us passionate and dedicated users. Then I'd have them pick up the tab for everyone in the place, just to see if they were serious. (Of course they would do that because it isn't coming out of their pocket anyway!) Notice the lack of purple text here.

I met GPB at the LAST SWXWorld in Los Angeles, 2018. It was at the breakout session for the TTL, the first time the TTL had been taken off the main stage. I have to hand it to him, we were a tough crowd, but he was well informed and surprisingly knowledgeable about the issues we were bringing up. I was impressed. Today, with what I have learned in the last few weeks, . . . To only say I am disappointed would be an April Fool's joke! I am flat out pissed at him and the bunch that is standing by their stupid platform and trying to act like they are graciously showing us the way to the future. Pffftt.

I felt flattered to be asked to be in their focus group. Reflecting on it now it was a HUGE waste of my time and quite insulting. Try this on for size:
"Hey, Jason! How about giving me a couple hours of your time every other week? We really want to hear your ideas on how we can make this great thing better!"
"But we have NO intention of incorporating any of your suggestions. We are doing this to say we tried to fight for you."

I don't know what color that last paragraph should be. What's the color for fed-up?

[jcapriotti]

@DennisD They can say "we consulted with prominent members of the Solidworks community before we rolled it out". That way they can throw you guys under the bus (subtly of course).

[DennisD]

@DennisD They can say "we consulted with prominent members of the Solidworks community before we rolled it out". That way they can throw you guys under the bus (subtly of course).

Yep, I think if they tried that they would get this from the whole group:

[Glenn Schroeder]

Yup. There's not much point in consulting with users if you have no intention of listening to them.

[matt]

Yup. There's not much point in consulting with users if you have no intention of listening to them.

Some of you probably don't remember it, but there was a group called 3 Amigos that went to SW hq for the same sort of deal, and I was there on the same sort of deal. Every 5-6 years they take in a group of rebels and mollify them with lunches and t-shirts and promises of a brighter tomorrow and how much they're already doing for you. Of course now even those days are gone.

Anyway, it's a good thing to have options available. And learning new stuff is fun.

[DennisD]

Yup. There's not much point in consulting with users if you have no intention of listening to them.

Some of you probably don't remember it, but there was a group called 3 Amigos that went to SW hq for the same sort of deal, and I was there on the same sort of deal. Every 5-6 years they take in a group of rebels and mollify them with lunches and t-shirts and promises of a brighter tomorrow and how much they're already doing for you. Of course now even those days are gone.

Anyway, it's a good thing to have options available. And learning new stuff is fun.

Yep, @RickB and I went as a result of ONE and TWO! We were very impressed with everyone we met, although Mark Johnson should never be allowed to interface with anybody outside the company. He even raised his voice at us in a meeting there. What a pr!ck.

[Craig Schultz]

And don't at least 2 of the Amigos work for Dassault now? I know one is.

[DennisD]

I must be a glutton for punishment. I keep going to the 3DSwamp to see if perhaps this time I can get somewhere. Nope. What a mess.

Therefore, I'd like to propose renaming it to CFS (Can't Find Sh!t)

[matt]

And don't at least 2 of the Amigos work for Dassault now? I know one is.

I don't even remember their names. Was Sporkman one of them?

[Craig Schultz]

I thought it was Matt Lorono (sp?), he's on the drawing UX side of SW. The other one I think is part of the overall SWUX. Since I can't see old posts now, my old brain can't be joggled around to remember.

Sporkman/Sporky might have been the other one.

[jmongi]

The truly sad part is twofold.
1. This concept that they are trying to execute isn't actually a terrible idea (hear me out!)
The idea of a community based "facebook" for their entire suite of connectable software isn't a terrible idea on the surface. Some of the collaborative functionality looks quite interesting from a technical point of view. I've found a few neat things perusing around the swamp that I can appreciate the efforts that went into making it work.

2. The execution of that idea is fantastically bad.
This isn't even an SWForum issue. The UI for what it actually IS and could be used for is tragically bad. Writing a Facebookesque web based platform is incredibly difficult. Google has tried and failed TWICE!

DSS failed in two main areas:
1. Confusing marketing speak for actual practical benefit.
2. Grossly underestimating the complexity of creating such a platform.

Rolling the SW Forum over feels like a case of throwing good money after bad. The platform is floundering/sinking, let's force an existing community of users to use our bad platform. Unfortunately, they forgot we weren't as "required" to use their site as they thought.

[jmongi]

Since I'm a glutton for punishment, I posted an improvements thread at the swamp. Just a quick perusal shows only 5 new actual help questions and only 1 answer. My question...where did all the n00bs go? subreddit? The ether?

They aren't here and they aren't at the swamp....

[bnemec]

My question...where did all the n00bs go? subreddit? The ether?

They aren't here and they aren't at the swamp....

I think it would sound like a speaker playing music in outer space.

I think I'm going to go light up some Solidworks Facebook groups with the link to here. I'm not in any SW groups on Facebook, but I'll see if I can find something. That's about as socially networked as I am, not much to do with reedit or snapchat or twitter.

[mattpeneguy]

I couldn't help myself...I'm going to get banned at some point, I guess...

image.png

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[jcapriotti]

@mattpeneguy Hey, they asked for this, what did they expect?

[zwei]

Since I'm a glutton for punishment, I posted an improvements thread at the swamp. Just a quick perusal shows only 5 new actual help questions and only 1 answer. My question...where did all the n00bs go? subreddit? The ether?

They aren't here and they aren't at the swamp....

Actually the subreddit for SWX is pretty active.... even more active than the SWMP...
So if we could point some of the user to here... that will be fantastic

Edit:
I will try to post something in the subreddit so that user are aware of this forum...

[zwei]

In case any1 had been wondering...

Want to hide the useless left and right community bar? You can do it, but only on mobile... LOL

image.png

Once again, this show that 3DSWYMP is a social media platform not a forum...

[mattpeneguy]

In case any1 had been wondering...

Want to hide the useless left and right community bar? You can do it, but only on mobile... LOL
image.png

Once again, this show that 3DSWYMP is a social media platform not a forum...

@Zhen-Wei Tee,
You've got it right it's much closer to Reddit than a forum. Maybe 3DReddit?

[jcapriotti]

You've got it right it's much closer to Reddit than a forum. Maybe 3DReddit?

Don't insult Reddit like that.

[KevinC]

I just tried to give The Swamp a shot...again...painful...still.

I replied to a post and discovered I couldn't add a CR for presentation and a pause for readability. Like this.

Instead it sends the message and then I had to rummage to edit my post, which consisted of "Hello,".

So here's another bit of Swamp idiocy...stream of conscience typing with no consideration for the reader or for a presentable reply..

Kevin

[jmongi]

A trick Alin reminded me of when dealing with such a situation is to use Shift + Enter.
But, I too find it frustrating.

[Alin]

One good thing I noticed this weekend is the fact that SW executives started to answer users’ questions directly on the forum. The VP of R&D, in particular is very active. He is a member of the old SW guard and, for me, having him acknowledging the limitations and sharing with us the next steps in improving the functionality is a sign in the right direction.
In the same threads, members of the R&D team are naming the problems with no reservation and describe the difficulties in solving them. Pretty refreshing to see that. Better later than never.

[HerrTick]

Boycotting. If you need me this is where to find me. If they need me, this to where to find me.

[mattpeneguy]

One good thing I noticed this weekend is the fact that SW executives started to answer users’ questions directly on the forum. The VP of R&D, in particular is very active. He is a member of the old SW guard and, for me, having him acknowledging the limitations and sharing with us the next steps in improving the functionality is a sign in the right direction.
In the same threads, members of the R&D team are naming the problems with no reservation and describe the difficulties in solving them. Pretty refreshing to see that. Better later than never.

Imagine if they allocated those resources to fixing bugs in SW?...Just sayin'...

[Alin]

Imagine if they allocated those resources to fixing bugs in SW?...Just sayin'...

I am pretty sure they allocate much more resources to fixing bugs than that. It is quite sad to see useful people getting sidetracked from their jobs by the forum transition/

[mattpeneguy]

Imagine if they allocated those resources to fixing bugs in SW?...Just sayin'...

I am pretty sure they allocate much more resources to fixing bugs than that. It is quite sad to see useful people getting sidetracked from their jobs by the forum transition/

That was kind of my point. Those resources could be allocated to something more productive, had they listened to us in the first place...Oh, well.
Have you voted over at https://r1132100503382-eu1-3dswym.3dexp ... jWv7YZEsRg , yet?

image.png

[Frederick_Law]

In case any1 had been wondering...

Want to hide the useless left and right community bar? You can do it, but only on mobile... LOL
image.png

Once again, this show that 3DSWYMP is a social media platform not a forum...

Drag your desktop browser to reduce its width, you'll get the same.

[Bradfordzzz]

wow ... what a load of crap it is over there.
I can't believe how disorganized everything is now.
Tried it ... annnnnd .. i'm out.

Thank God for this forum and for all of the power users/helpers who are here.
So very thankful to all of you.

[Frederick_Law]

The SwYmP is great.
I can $hit there all day and nobody try to stop me
I should create a tag post.
#SolidDoesntWork
#6WTFtag
#CADFORUM

[zwei]

Imagine if they allocated those resources to fixing bugs in SW?...Just sayin'...

I am pretty sure they allocate much more resources to fixing bugs than that. It is quite sad to see useful people getting sidetracked from their jobs by the forum transition/

That was kind of my point. Those resources could be allocated to something more productive, had they listened to us in the first place...Oh, well.
Have you voted over at https://r1132100503382-eu1-3dswym.3dexp ... jWv7YZEsRg , yet?
image.png

You have my vote
And once again i cant find the post in the SWYM and had to rely on your link...

[mattpeneguy]

@Zhen-Wei Tee,
No kidding. I created that survey and couldn't find it myself! But, somewhere I found that if you X out of the Notifications on the right, you see this bar of tiles and one of them is "Surveys". So, if you need to find it again, that's how you get to it...That UI is clear as mud...

image.png

[mike miller]

That is pretty revealing, @mattpeneguy

cadforum over 3Dswym, 24 to 5. Who'da thunk?

[DennisD]

That is pretty revealing, @mattpeneguy

cadforum over 3Dswym, 24 to 5. Who'da thunk?

Most impressive is that the survey resides in the 3DSwamp!

[dave.laban]

Looks like there's something there now. I tried clicking on a post by Ryan Priddy to see how to set the search to the "forum" page, and this is what I got:
loading.gif
I'm inviting over here to discuss it...
Looks like I've got to be an author to post anything...And the box to request that is just "Loading" after I clicked to send the request...Oh, well...

Just in case anyone is wondering they didn't implement any, as far as I can see, of the plethora of requests that where asked for in the "3dExperience Swym" forum". They are still asking for feedback and they promise THIS TIME they'll listen

Sucks for those who actually took the time like Dave Laban..

Yeah I've pretty much given up at this point. They've had my feedback and from the first few days of it coming live all that I can really add to anything is "I told you so".

[AlexLachance]

I met GPB at the LAST SWXWorld in Los Angeles, 2018. It was at the breakout session for the TTL, the first time the TTL had been taken off the main stage. I have to hand it to him, we were a tough crowd, but he was well informed and surprisingly knowledgeable about the issues we were bringing up. I was impressed. Today, with what I have learned in the last few weeks, . . . To only say I am disappointed would be an April Fool's joke! I am flat out pissed at him and the bunch that is standing by their stupid platform and trying to act like they are graciously showing us the way to the future. Pffftt.

I felt flattered to be asked to be in their focus group. Reflecting on it now it was a HUGE waste of my time and quite insulting. Try this on for size:
"Hey, Jason! How about giving me a couple hours of your time every other week? We really want to hear your ideas on how we can make this great thing better!"
"But we have NO intention of incorporating any of your suggestions. We are doing this to say we tried to fight for you."

I don't know what color that last paragraph should be. What's the color for fed-up?

And this is why I feel it would be most effective to make less noise then to be as vocal as we are right now. I think if we were to stop making noise, I believe it would really resonate to them, as they've never had the SolidWorks community be quiet.

[AlexLachance]

I thought it was Matt Lorono (sp?), he's on the drawing UX side of SW. The other one I think is part of the overall SWUX. Since I can't see old posts now, my old brain can't be joggled around to remember.

Sporkman/Sporky might have been the other one.

Matt's a great guy, he came over to see us when I was throwing my fit over the issues they had and he was very understanding and apologetic. As far as I know, he's a Product Definition Manager in the R&D department of SW.

[AlexLachance]

A trick Alin reminded me of when dealing with such a situation is to use Shift + Enter.
But, I too find it frustrating.

I knew about the trick and use it, but leave it to Dassault to make it counter-intuitive.

[AlexLachance]

Man, coming in this morning and reading all this 'hate' kind of brings a warm feeling to my heart. Hopefully it brings the contrary feeling to DS/3DX employees.

[dave.laban]

The number of threads with people asking where their stuff is, is already pretty hilarious.

[mattpeneguy]

The number of threads with people asking where their stuff is, is already pretty hilarious.

Here's my contribution for today:

image.png

That's a link to my thread where I show how to find stuff there. Here: https://cadforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15

[AlexLachance]

Just logged in this morning for kicks and giggles, boy there's even more hate there then here! Definetly not catching up on my 376 notifications lmao

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Edit:

Okay this is just too funny not to share. Anybody notice the ''quoting'' system over there?

These are quotations LMFAO

image.png

[zwei]

Okay this is just too funny not to share. Anybody notice the ''quoting'' system over there?

These are quotations LMFAO
image.png

WAIT What!?
What happen to nested quote?

[jmongi]

I placed my parting words in my original post in the swamp. Out of respect for the forum users who already provided plenty of excellent feedback to DSS and were ignored, I will no longer update my post. The issue is not knowledge, the issue is choosing to ignore such knowledge. Cheers!

[AlexLachance]

Okay this is just too funny not to share. Anybody notice the ''quoting'' system over there?

These are quotations LMFAO
image.png

WAIT What!?
What happen to nested quote?

Don't know, but someone brilliant clearly had an idea there.