Getting people on Board, changing culture.

[MJuric]

Part of my current position is implementing various continuous improvement ideas, efficiency improvements etc etc.

That being said I'm fully aware that the only way to truly make any changes like this is to have the people involved onboard and or even excited about the changes.

At present, pretty much company wide, there is a culture of "this is the way we've always done it" combined with "We've done that before and it didn't work" mentalities. Sadly in some cases some of things I'm trying to implement have been tried before but in pretty much every case never was implemented properly, never followed thru with, etc etc.

The issues I try to focus on are.

1) Try to get input from the people involved and make sure that their ideas are seen and implemented if at all possible. If not possible give a full detailed explanation why we can't/Won't/shouldn't Implement that idea.
2) try to compliment people when they do get involved, come up with good ideas etc.
3) When possible and relevant make sure that the people that will have to deal with the changes are in fact the "Experts" on the subject and that they should speak up with any concerns with proposed changes and if possible suggest their own changes.

For the most part the response is luke warm at best.

So I'm wondering what peoples input is on how to get people onboard, willing to change etc etc. As a "Manager" or "Supervisor" what have you done that seems to get people excited or interested in changes. What makes people close of an become unwilling to change or get involved? As an employee when faced with "Oh no not this again they are trying to "Improve" things again", what got you excited about the change or at least willing to give it a realistic effort to try and make a change?

[Glenn Schroeder]

To be perfectly honest, if that's the culture then unless you have the authority (or support from upper management) to implement the changes you have a steep hill to climb. Unfortunately some people aren't interested in better ways of doing things, and won't unless forced to.

[DennisD]

I don't know how big your company is, but any initiative like this must be fully supported from the top down. Here are a few suggestions in no particular order.

A. Your item #2 explaining why something won't or can't work is important. Done properly it identifies the obstacles that must be breached in order to turn the "no" into a "yes". In explaining these things it helps to solicit their ideas for changing the conditions either by blowing up or getting around the obstacles. If capital funding is the problem can it instead be done with expense funding or something else? If it is a resource issue can something be done to justify the needed resources of skills, equipment, or time? Can priorities be changed?

B. Have brainstorming meetings with varied/random people, including the top dogs. Issue everyone name tags with only their first name, or better yet, a made-up nickname. Make sure it is clear that everyone involved in the meeting has an equal voice and the bosses cannot use their boss stick for anything. What is said in the room stays in the room and even the comments get paraphrased so the individual identity of who said what is eliminated. This builds group ownership of the ideas and helps everyone to become invested in them. Before ending the session agree to what will be done with the ideas and act on those things as soon as possible. Broadcast the efforts and results. This is vital to build credibility; without quick and substantive results you are dead in the water. DO NOT HESITATE to kick someone out, especially a boss, that does not leave their baggage and title outside the room.

C. If an idea was tried before, why did it fail? Are the conditions different now and the idea can be given another chance?

D. Examine all constraints/obstacles. Often what was a constraint in the past is assumed to still be a constraint, but it really isn't. With time things change - people, attitudes, technology, company position. Some of the best low hanging fruit is realizing that the old reason something couldn't or didn't work is no longer there. Have you heard about how horses learn where an electric fence is and after awhile they don't even attempt to cross that boundary. When the fence is removed the horses still don't cross, even though there is lush grass on the other side. When a new horse is brought in and doesn't know there used to be a fence there he goes right on over to the lush grass. The other horses look at each other with that long face (sorry, couldn't resist) and feel stupid for missing out on the opportunity, but they are soon eager to cross the boundary they assumed was still there.

Getting buy-in from everyone is crucial. This requires that they be listened to and given a chance to become owners and champions for the ideas. They have to feel respected and safe. A good boss will embrace this and put their egos away in order to become a strong support for the team.

[MJuric]

To be perfectly honest, if that's the culture then unless you have the authority (or support from upper management) to implement the changes you have a steep hill to climb. Unfortunately some people aren't interested in better ways of doing things, and won't unless forced to.

Most of Upper management is on board...most

I'm less concerned about upper management than I am everyone else in this case. I can present what I want to do, support it with numbers and am lucky enough to have a group of upper management that can look at the numbers and say yeah or nay. For the most part as long as I can reasonably show an ROI they want it done, so I'm lucky there.

What the problem is, is that this company has history of "Starting things" and not following thru so there are a whole lot of people that have no desire to go thru that again.

Of course you always have the people that have no desire to change ever,

[AlexLachance]

As I'm sure your aware, every person is unique, therefor there is no universal technique/approach that will motivate employees.

I have 3 person I supervise, 3 completely different personnalities. One's a grumpy man in his 40's, another is a lady with some insecurities in her 40's and the last is a guy in mid 30's who has ADHD.

My approach towards each of them is different and also depends on what I am adressing.

If I am adressing an issue:
Grumpy man : I will be very rigid with him as nothing is ever good enough. I'll listen to his ideas, but will keep in mind that he is most likely just "changing things for the heck of it". If it makes sense, then I'll help him out with the startup and maybe will help him make it better when he is done with the concept.

Insecure Lady : I will be open to her ideas towards solving an issue but will guide her to make sure she does not get stuck. Because of her insecurities, she often is shy to ask questions, so by guiding her I avoid her getting stuck for a few hours without asking questions. She's also very orderly(methodic?) so we try and give her things that require to be "ordered", because we know it is something she'll put her heart into.

ADHD guy : I have to figure out how to get his attention, and keep it, then I'll discuss matters with him and be open about his ideas. I'll oversee his work after he is done, as he is confident enough to complete it. Very versatile person with alot of willingness to learn.



If I were to be more "general" about my "process" on how to get people on board, is that I identify their personalities, passions, strengths and weaknesses and work according to these. Speaking to someone about something they are passionate about generally keeps them focused on what you are explaining.

[MJuric]

I don't know how big your company is, but any initiative like this must be fully supported from the top down. Here are a few suggestions in no particular order.

A. Your item #2 explaining why something won't or can't work is important. Done properly it identifies the obstacles that must be breached in order to turn the "no" into a "yes". In explaining these things it helps to solicit their ideas for changing the conditions either by blowing up or getting around the obstacles. If capital funding is the problem can it instead be done with expense funding or something else? If it is a resource issue can something be done to justify the needed resources of skills, equipment, or time? Can priorities be changed?

B. Have brainstorming meetings with varied/random people, including the top dogs. Issue everyone name tags with only their first name, or better yet, a made-up nickname. Make sure it is clear that everyone involved in the meeting has an equal voice and the bosses cannot use their boss stick for anything. What is said in the room stays in the room and even the comments get paraphrased so the individual identity of who said what is eliminated. This builds group ownership of the ideas and helps everyone to become invested in them. Before ending the session agree to what will be done with the ideas and act on those things as soon as possible. Broadcast the efforts and results. This is vital to build credibility; without quick and substantive results you are dead in the water. DO NOT HESITATE to kick someone out, especially a boss, that does not leave their baggage and title outside the room.

C. If an idea was tried before, why did it fail? Are the conditions different now and the idea can be given another chance?

D. Examine all constraints/obstacles. Often what was a constraint in the past is assumed to still be a constraint, but it really isn't. With time things change - people, attitudes, technology, company position. Some of the best low hanging fruit is realizing that the old reason something couldn't or didn't work is no longer there. Have you heard about how horses learn where an electric fence is and after awhile they don't even attempt to cross that boundary. When the fence is removed the horses still don't cross, even though there is lush grass on the other side. When a new horse is brought in and doesn't know there used to be a fence there he goes right on over to the lush grass. The other horses look at each other with that long face (sorry, couldn't resist) and feel stupid for missing out on the opportunity, but they are soon eager to cross the boundary they assumed was still there.

Getting buy-in from everyone is crucial. This requires that they be listened to and given a chance to become owners and champions for the ideas. They have to feel respected and safe. A good boss will embrace this and put their egos away in order to become a strong support for the team.

The company is a medium sized company. The division I'm working directly with is only ~150-200 people. However alot of what I'm doing is part of the larger corporate directive and am incorporating aspects that other divisions are already doing or developing. Worlds wide the entire company is probably ~1500 people or so. Directly, at present, I'm working with two specific groups inside this division as "Guinea pigs" which comprise of only two smaller groups of ~10 people each not including "Management". The idea was that we start with the two most disparate groups in this division and create the systems and approaches. Once we feel we have a "Working system" we then adapt it to the rest of the company.

I think the horse and electrical fence example is appropriate. "Things" have been tried multiple times in a few different ways and there were a lot of missing pieces to make them actually viable. Many of those missing pieces can, have been or will be filled in via various ways. Getting over the "There's a fence there" will be the hard part.

[mike miller]

One of the biggest game changers is taking key employees along to visit a shop that is where you want to be (with 5S, Lean, Six Sigma, etc.). This can be an effective way to break the mold and "knock the scales from their eyes". Of course it usually won't be a hole-in-one, but the closer the other shop is to your own the better it works.

[zwei]

At my workplace, we have something like a continuous improvement competition where people submit their idea and someone will judge and vote for it...
People can see what other had done and their success story, etc etc.
As for how effective it is, i cant say for sure, but hey it was fun

Personally i think it is important to let people know that "things can change/improve", no matter how small an improvement is, an improvement is still an improvement.

When it come to this kind of continuous improvement activity, someone must lead it no matter how small the improvement is and the management must give full support.

I personally also notice that when it is easier to submit idea/problem for improvement, more people will provide their input.
It needs not to be something fancy like idea funnel or SWYMP, a shared OneNote will do just fine.
Have a complaint about our drawing template? Don't like our current workflow? Put it in so we can think about how to improve.

I certainly agree that changing people mindset is a tough one, and it definitely take time.
Letting people to recognize that a lot of time, it is the design/process/workflow that has problem.

when people have trouble with something, it isn't their fault -- it's the fault of the design

When they recognize it is the design that has problem, improvement can come more easily.

[DennisD]

My youngest daughter is an Industrial Engineer making trucks. She works with the folks on the floor assembling them. She listens to them, gets her hands on the situations to really understand them, and then she works to find solutions. As a rule the assemblers (all union) hate the office staff, but will always exclude her in their criticism. "They are all full of crap, except Eva. We love Eva!" She listens to them to understand their problems and then makes a good effort to improve things. They feel respected and gladly cooperate with her. They see that she is helping to improve their conditions, even when big changes are happening like major rearranging of the line. Even when a change is being forced on someone if they are given the chance to have a voice in it they feel respected. If the change is just forced down their throat they will resent and resist. A little buy-in goes a LOOONNNGG way.

And to Alex's point, it is vital to treat each person with respect, listening to them and talking to them in a way that works for each individual. That in itself is treating them with respect.

[Tom G]

I admit this is not the solution you are looking for, and it ignores your valid concerns. This is applicable in small business environments only, but it works. In my case, my department was downsized to one, after aggressive tariffs in a trade war hurt this company. Silver Lining^TM.

Fire everyone else and Do It Yourself. When new hires come along, show them the new way which is now the only way.

[mattpeneguy]

I have been around long enough to be on the wrong side of this equation, forced into an inefficient and unnecessary workflow that is both more labor intensive and doesn't provide me with any benefit. So, I can completely understand the hesitancy. If I'm interpreting this right, for the vast majority what you are proposing will provide benefits. Show and sell those benefits, but don't also hide any extra work or problems it may cause them (that will cause some resentment). As posted above ask for feed back on all of it and if you are sincere, I'm sure you'll get some level of buy-in. Once you get the buy-in, it can be a snowball effect and before you know it everyone will want to participate in the new workflow.

Currently, I've been dragged into our Windows 10 migration and I've seen first hand the attitude of "this is the way we've always done it" by someone older than me. It was interesting because in the same breath the argument was made that they can't work with outside entities files...I can guarantee in the last 30 years that group has never once said, "I wonder if the industry has innovated and made our work easier".

[matt]

I implemented PDM at a company, and there were some supporters, a lot of wait and see folks, and some people who just fought me tooth and nail. I threw everything I had at it:

1) I got the support of mgmt. If we were going to spend this kind of money, it had to be successful, and I can't be successful with a bunch of detractors. So mgmt was willing to endorse the project

2) I made the project very open. All the meetings were as open as I could make them. We invited representatives from each area of the company.

3) we made a decision grid which assigned points to each aspect we thought was important, and added the points up in a big grid.

4) After making the decision, we did an internal test implementation, tried to work out the kinks

5) When the test was complete, we duplicated the test environment into a production pilot environment

6) Wrote up a workflow/set of instructions

7) we chose a pilot project to try it out

8) sent the pilot users to training

9) supported the pilot project and users to the absolute best way I could

10) adjusted the rules/instructions as we learned through the test pilots.

11) Post-mortem on the pilot project, management gives the OK to move forward

12) The next new project that came used the new system

13) as more users got integrated, we started converting old projects via the ECO system so that eventually we had 95% of the parts the company used on a regular basis in the system after about 6 months. Eventually all work was being done through the new process, and we could demonstrate much better visibility of all documentation through out the entire process.

[MJuric]

At my workplace, we have something like a continuous improvement competition where people submit their idea and someone will judge and vote for it...

I had something like this in the back of my mind and was trying to figure out a way to make it useful and not "Weird" or "Corny". If you had some sort of reward system that also created some amount of "Friendly Competition" I think that would draw people in.

I'm pretty sure I could sell this to management as well as they "Reward" and or have contests like this on occasion. I just need to come up with the criteria for the "Judging" and figure out what a decent prize would be.

[MJuric]

I have been around long enough to be on the wrong side of this equation, forced into an inefficient and unnecessary workflow that is both more labor intensive and doesn't provide me with any benefit.

That's EXACTLY what I'm trying to avoid and exactly why it is imperative to get honest input from everyone in these groups. Often times looking at it one way misses something. Unless the people affected by the change speak up they end up "Feeling" like this is being forced on them and it will cause them more work.

None of that is the goal and the only way to avoid it is to have people speak up.

That doesn't mean that "I don't like it" can't be over ridden because in some cases the person that ends up with the "Inefficient and unnecessary " workflow are only seeing it from one perspective as well and can't see the added associated gains that may not be directly related to them.

[MJuric]

One of the biggest game changers is taking key employees along to visit a shop that is where you want to be (with 5S, Lean, Six Sigma, etc.). This can be an effective way to break the mold and "knock the scales from their eyes". Of course it usually won't be a hole-in-one, but the closer the other shop is to your own the better it works.

That's a good idea. One of our divisions close to us is further along in this process than we are but I don't think they are an example that would "Knock the scales off" either.

[Frederick_Law]

Start small. Get small changes and improvements implemented to gain trust. Look and ask for small improvement you can work on now.
Once everyone see you as problem solver, it'll get easy.

[AlexLachance]

I had something like this in the back of my mind and was trying to figure out a way to make it useful and not "Weird" or "Corny". If you had some sort of reward system that also created some amount of "Friendly Competition" I think that would draw people in.

I'm pretty sure I could sell this to management as well as they "Reward" and or have contests like this on occasion. I just need to come up with the criteria for the "Judging" and figure out what a decent prize would be.

We have a "continuous improvement" program that promotes people to send ideas in. When they are accepted, it is then listed amongst the improvements requested by production and has his name along with it. During our quarterly meeting the improvements are introduced to everyone while also mentionning who sent them in. The only reward there is is to have been the one to introduce it.

When I proposed having a money incentive, I kind of had to agree with what my boss answered me. His answer was along the line of:
"Those who do send some in right now, are those who care. If we were to pay for this, people would send in all sort of improvements just in hopes of getting a money return. We would then in turn have a much larger pile of improvements to analyse, and many would most likely be very minor things that would not count as improvements and would then anger some employees."

[JSculley]

That's EXACTLY what I'm trying to avoid and exactly why it is imperative to get honest input from everyone in these groups. Often times looking at it one way misses something. Unless the people affected by the change speak up they end up "Feeling" like this is being forced on them and it will cause them more work.

I have found that the best way to introduce a 'new way of doing things' is to automate the process as much as possible so that users are 'doing less things'. If you can replace a 10 step manual process with a one button automatic process producing equivalent or better results, who can argue? Now, if you replace a 10 step manual process with a 25 step manual process, I'll be the first in line with torch and pitchfork.

[Roasted By John]

I have found that the best way to introduce a 'new way of doing things' is to automate the process as much as possible so that users are 'doing less things'. If you can replace a 10 step manual process with a one button automatic process producing equivalent or better results, who can argue? Now, if you replace a 10 step manual process with a 25 step manual process, I'll be the first in line with torch and pitchfork.

LOL - There would have been at least three people here that would have been "pitched" into the fire by Sculley

Analytical diagnostics that kept changing, they were constantly trying to figure out how to get another free hour from each employee, by trying to come up with a new production process that sounded to good to be true. Never ever worked out.

[MJuric]

I have found that the best way to introduce a 'new way of doing things' is to automate the process as much as possible so that users are 'doing less things'. If you can replace a 10 step manual process with a one button automatic process producing equivalent or better results, who can argue? Now, if you replace a 10 step manual process with a 25 step manual process, I'll be the first in line with torch and pitchfork.

Turning 25 steps into 10 steps is ALOT of what I'm working on at the moment. Automating design, programming, machine operations and on and on. The more automation, the fewer hands in the cookie jar the less amount of work and fewer chances for mistakes.

[DennisD]

I have found that the best way to introduce a 'new way of doing things' is to automate the process as much as possible so that users are 'doing less things'. If you can replace a 10 step manual process with a one button automatic process producing equivalent or better results, who can argue? Now, if you replace a 10 step manual process with a 25 step manual process, I'll be the first in line with torch and pitchfork.

Case in point: the 3DSwamp.

[MJuric]

Case in point: the 3DSwamp.

Are you trying to tell me you're not onboard with the 3DSywm platform?

[Roasted By John]

Part of my current position is implementing various continuous improvement ideas, efficiency improvements etc etc.

That being said I'm fully aware that the only way to truly make any changes like this is to have the people involved onboard and or even excited about the changes.

At present, pretty much company wide, there is a culture of "this is the way we've always done it" combined with "We've done that before and it didn't work" mentalities. Sadly in some cases some of things I'm trying to implement have been tried before but in pretty much every case never was implemented properly, never followed thru with, etc etc.

The issues I try to focus on are.

1) Try to get input from the people involved and make sure that their ideas are seen and implemented if at all possible. If not possible give a full detailed explanation why we can't/Won't/shouldn't Implement that idea.
2) try to compliment people when they do get involved, come up with good ideas etc.
3) When possible and relevant make sure that the people that will have to deal with the changes are in fact the "Experts" on the subject and that they should speak up with any concerns with proposed changes and if possible suggest their own changes.

For the most part the response is luke warm at best.

So I'm wondering what peoples input is on how to get people onboard, willing to change etc etc. As a "Manager" or "Supervisor" what have you done that seems to get people excited or interested in changes. What makes people close of an become unwilling to change or get involved? As an employee when faced with "Oh no not this again they are trying to "Improve" things again", what got you excited about the change or at least willing to give it a realistic effort to try and make a change?

That is always a tough call - but I would put all the iotas on you, as a supervisor/manager, it is your job to create a winning team. You should evaluate the people that you are in charge of, so they can be placed in the proper position. I always liked to use the "Baseball Team Analogy" - don't put the pitcher in the back catchers position, etc.

What I have done already is to create a sample system and have the employees feel free to express ideas for the system setup, don't hurry that process, it may take a bunch of small meetings.

[DennisD]

Are you trying to tell me you're not onboard with the 3DSywm platform?

I am included in their focus group. We have a video meeting every two weeks. They are listening and they are making some very positive changes. It is very late in the game for all of this. It should have started in earnest two years ago, but they didn't. They didn't even start to really pay attention to this group until all hell broke loose at the beginning of April. So now they are working hard to implement things that should have been there all along. All of it is made more difficult by the platform that is forced on them. I visit the site maybe once a day on the hopes that some of these changes are starting to show up. I am there for all of two minutes before I gladly leave before my blood pressure goes up too high. I really do care and really do want a good forum there.

The good news is that they are listening and they are making some good changes.

The bad news is that it takes a long time to implement, so some of these good things we won't see for a bit. I am not at liberty to say any details about what or when.

The extra good news is that they will be able to do some things that cannot be done on a regular forum and they should be real pleasers. But first things first, they need to get it to a functional forum before trying to give us sizzle.

[MJuric]

But first things first, they need to get it to a functional forum before trying to give us sizzle.

Yes. Putting lipstick on a pig is going to do no one any good in this case.

There are some very serious limitations with that site that need to be dealt with the worst of which is real estate. Posts just disappear to fast because each post takes up 1/3 of a page.

Until that is made substantially better it's a practically unusable format.

[Glenn Schroeder]

Yes. Putting lipstick on a pig is going to do no one any good in this case.

There are some very serious limitations with that site that need to be dealt with the worst of which is real estate. Posts just disappear to fast because each post takes up 1/3 of a page.

Until that is made substantially better it's a practically unusable format.

Howdy @matt,

I was going to fix that sentence above, but couldn't. Can we get a strike through function?

[DennisD]

Yes. Putting lipstick on a pig is going to do no one any good in this case.

There are some very serious limitations with that site that need to be dealt with the worst of which is real estate. Posts just disappear to fast because each post takes up 1/3 of a page.

Until that is made substantially better it's a practically unusable format.

Better use of the real estate is tops on the list.

[mike miller]

Howdy @matt,

I was going to fix that sentence above, but couldn't. Can we get a strike through function?

[Matt] knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. -Matthew 6:8

(yes, that's actually the reference.)

[MJuric]

2021-05-18 13_52_45.jpg

[Matt] knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. -Matthew 6:8

(yes, that's actually the reference.)

Cool, didn't even know we had one.

[matt]

Howdy @matt,

I was going to fix that sentence above, but couldn't. Can we get a strike through function?

Yes. Putting lipstick on a pig is going to do no one any good in this case.

There are some very serious limitations with that site that need to be dealt with the worst of which is real estate. Posts just disappear to fast because each post takes up 1/3 of a page.

Until that is made substantially better it's a practically unusable format.

image.png (5.57 KiB) Viewed 5291 times

[jcapriotti]

Maybe this should go in the quotes thread:
"People will resist change until the pain of not changing is greater."

People in general don't like you messing with their process which they have committed to muscle memory. So you definitely need upper management buy in with them actively pushing the management layers below. Most managers have KPIs they have to meet each year and these kind of projects need be factored in to move them to get their resources to focus.

[mattpeneguy]

That's EXACTLY what I'm trying to avoid and exactly why it is imperative to get honest input from everyone in these groups. Often times looking at it one way misses something. Unless the people affected by the change speak up they end up "Feeling" like this is being forced on them and it will cause them more work.

None of that is the goal and the only way to avoid it is to have people speak up.

That doesn't mean that "I don't like it" can't be over ridden because in some cases the person that ends up with the "Inefficient and unnecessary " workflow are only seeing it from one perspective as well and can't see the added associated gains that may not be directly related to them.

Matt,
I have complete confidence you wouldn't handle it the way it was forced on us. A group in another section that doesn't actually use the DMS system for their CAD work set it up. So, there was very little if any user input. We ended up with a system where if you want to create a CAD file in the DMS it literally takes 19 steps (I think you and I have discussed that in another thread).
Just the fact that you're on here asking for advice proves you are orders of magnitude away from the problem I experienced. I just put that in there to explain where the reticence to take up any changes may come from.

[matt]

Maybe this should go in the quotes thread:
"People will resist change until the pain of not changing is greater."

https://dezignstuff.com/maintenance-mode/
https://dezignstuff.com/of-cad-clouds-and-ipads/
https://dezignstuff.com/maintenance-mode/
https://dezignstuff.com/jeff-ray-killed ... mbalms-it/

[jcapriotti]

https://dezignstuff.com/maintenance-mode/
https://dezignstuff.com/of-cad-clouds-and-ipads/
https://dezignstuff.com/maintenance-mode/
https://dezignstuff.com/jeff-ray-killed ... mbalms-it/

Interesting to hear them use the same quote in regards to the cloud (which after 10 years still hasn't really happened). In my experience, users will tolerate a lot of pain to not change though. That "pain" is comfortable and familiar in a weird way. The unknown raises fear and doubt in way that causes a far worse perceived expectation of future pain. The mere possibility drives their avoidance and, for some, it is a powerful motivator to do nothing and in some cases to obstruct.

It's like getting a shot for some people, the anxiety and fear is far, far worse than the actual shot......so which are they avoiding?