CAD Forum

Ryan-3DS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:11 pm There is a LOT of misinformation out there and it is generally caused by people not understanding the terms/words they are using. Can you define what you mean by "online"?

Seems you are the only one having trouble understanding what was meant there. Stop splitting hairs...

Ryan-3DS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:11 pm Can you define what you mean by "online"?

Any version of the software that's not the desktop version that I've been using since 2009.

let me guess and speculate a bit.

If DS was going to answer with a yes or no to our questions it would trigger a mass migration to competitors, panic or any other unwanted consequence.
maybe keeping the smoke screen up until it will be to late to withdraw from this mess and force everybody to go on the platform is the main plan here?

I hate to be the nay-sayer here, but I think the doom and gloom is a bit premature. Look at the list of new features in 2024. You can argue that they are of little value; you can argue that the time would have been better spent fixing existing issue; but you can't argue they've abandoned desktop solidworks.

If they have any brains, they will keep doing just enough to keep us around. As a few guys on here can testify, changing software is a huge investment. It will have to get really bad for many of us to leave SW. They would be foolish not to take our money for as long as we will give it to them, even if they have to spend a little to do so.

I'm not saying they aren't doing everything they can to push us to the "platform." But there's still a lot of money to be made off of us old geezers, and even DSS isn't stupid enough to cut off that revenue until they can replace it.

Ryan-3DS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:11 pm There is a LOT of misinformation out there and it is generally caused by people not understanding the terms/words they are using. Can you define what you mean by "online"?

If you are using term that contradict with what normal people normally understand.. something is definitely off.

Conceptual or mental model are what people really have in their heads and what guides their use of things.
A good design does not even need proper definition of term as they convey the correct/accurate conceptual model to the user already.

SPerman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 6:19 pm I hate to be the nay-sayer here, but I think the doom and gloom is a bit premature. Look at the list of new features in 2024. You can argue that they are of little value; you can argue that the time would have been better spent fixing existing issue; but you can't argue they've abandoned desktop solidworks.

If they have any brains, they will keep doing just enough to keep us around. As a few guys on here can testify, changing software is a huge investment. It will have to get really bad for many of us to leave SW. They would be foolish not to take our money for as long as we will give it to them, even if they have to spend a little to do so.

I'm not saying they aren't doing everything they can to push us to the "platform." But there's still a lot of money to be made off of us old geezers, and even DSS isn't stupid enough to cut off that revenue until they can replace it.

That's a good point. I was pleasantly surprised at the enhancements to the core software for 2024. (See viewtopic.php?t=2979.)

Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:46 am That's a good point. I was pleasantly surprised at the enhancements to the core software for 2024. (See viewtopic.php?t=2979.)

Seems Dassault is on a slow burn towards their goal:
https://develop3d.com/cad/the-death-of-solidworks/

But the pieces appear to be falling into place finally:
https://blogs.solidworks.com/solidworks ... -more.html

LONG RANT AHEAD

the interview is dated 2011, irrc the platform was refurbished in 2012, then 2020 and the latest (and GrEaTEeSt so far ←this is sarcasm) upgrade started at the end of last year so they are clearly going in the direction envisioned in the article at forced steps.
At least the were more honest about the kernel back then, compared to the smoke screen we are seeing today.

The paradigm shift (to use some buzzword the managementis going to like) here is the trope "lower the costs" which is followed by "letting us run the show" (aka your data and systems completely in our hands) .
Since the debacle of data migration on the platform my hopes are very very low: they could have asked us to register again in the new portal instead of TRYING to port and merge the user data from multiple portals (customer support, mysolidworks, 3dx...) to the new platform. let me be blunt: it was a CLOWN SHOW and a all the issued we are seeing until now could be avoided or mitigated, but it is a clear demonstration they do not care about their customers.
By the way, to download some macro from the market they still use-require you to login with a different account with solidworks as it was apparently not migrated to the new platform...

Probably the initial costs could be competitive to lure us on board, but given the trend to overpromise and under deliver it is going to be painful.
The platform approach with a facebook like, infinite scrolling collaboration mess is not something good for a structured company, let alone it overlaps with other functions our company is already paying and investing to integrate with other providers.
On the hardware side we have zero guarantees that the performance on the cloud would be on par with on premise server and workstation. 2 yrs ago CATI(iirc) made a broad presentation about SOLIDWORKS performance and the results of 1000s automated benchmarks they made.
They analyzed a cloud option and the cost to keep it on par with an on premise solution WITH SIMILAR performance was not deemed competitive at the time as the cloud power is not free, but the workstations will require the same computational power for CAD nevertheless, be them on premise or in the cloud.
Another can of worms is the API and all the band aid fixes, workarounds we use them to keep our solidworks users run with a decent productivity.
Just the other day I had the threads bug (big circles) popping up in the drawings and I had to come up with a macro to update 90+ drawing views in the same file to avoid hours of unproductive manual update for an issue not related to our design, but a software FLAW.
In a cloud environment always updated to the latest version we will be forced to every regression the software is going to expose us to, let alone the low priority (at least for ds pow) issues that cause us to lose producivity, but since there is a workaround (that costs us hours of cad data reworking) will never be fixed.
Remember what happened during the ONE TWO ONE TWO thread?
DS was so detached with reality they did not even realized how many times their software was crashing or failing per day in trivial things like the UI or basic functions.
With the platform they will be even more detached as your complaints will be buried at the bottom of the bottomless 3Dswym.

This sounds more and more like the CAD solution nobody in the industry asked for, and it will clearly put additional costs and problems for structured companies like us.

It "could" be a cash grab for DS with a small and large user base that do not have a critical mass of data or do not care of legacy data once their projects are completed. It "could" be a temporary solution for small makers as well, but they can jump to another platform anytime.

RANT OVER

edit: fixed a barrage of spell and typing errors. Sorry, I always write from my phone in suboptimal english.

I see the FLAW in you runt.

mp3-250 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:15 pm With the platform they will be even more detached as your claims will be buried at the bottom of the bottomless 3Dswym.

No problem in the platform.
Clear your cache.
Keep clearing your cash.

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:31 pm I see the FLAW in you runt.



No problem in the platform.
Clear your cache.
Keep clearing your cash.

You forgot...
"Try a different browser."

firefox and chrome are both officially supported. ♡

(neither works actually)

mp3-250 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:15 pm
With the platform they will be even more detached as your claims will be buried at the bottom of the bottomless 3Dswym.

Haven't you heard? You can just invite Manish Kumar to your company and get your minor irritations bumped up the priority list within the week.

Last October, when I visited a customer in Korea, they pointed out that dimensions don’t align when using the Collinear Dimension command. A few days later the SOLIDWORKS team was already working on the Collinear Dimension enhancement.

https://blogs.solidworks.com/solidworks ... ve-it.html

nice. I think if he came to our company the whole dev team would be fired the next day.

dave.laban wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 3:22 am Haven't you heard? You can just invite Manish Kumar to your company and get your minor irritations bumped up the priority list within the week.



https://blogs.solidworks.com/solidworks ... ve-it.html

It did get a few things moving when they came to see us to be honest, but honestly it shouldn't be needed.

zwei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:22 pm If you are using term that contradict with what normal people normally understand.. something is definitely off.

Conceptual or mental model are what people really have in their heads and what guides their use of things.
A good design does not even need proper definition of term as they convey the correct/accurate conceptual model to the user already.

It's about communication. Verbal communication. As a personal example, I had a conversation with my daughter (22 yr old) while in the car. A Ford F-150 that had been raised by about 18" pulled up next to us. My daughter commented that she wouldn't even be able to get into the truck- it didn't have a step or rail for stepping up into the truck. I said it had to be "killer" on the gas mileage. She looked oddly at me. Later that evening she asked why I thought the truck would get suck GOOD mileage being raised. I said it wouldn't. It would get worse mileage because of all the air drag. She then said but you said it would get killer gas mileage. I shook my head..to this generation, "killer" means really good.
So, to my point. If I say my solution is cloud. What does that mean to you? Cloud-native (designed, built, and secured for the cloud), cloud-ready (can be deployed virtually in the cloud but still a duplicate of on-premise) or what?
Words have meanings...and if we are trying to communicate all parties need to understand the words the same. Otherwise, we all end up looking like fools and standing around the Tower of Babel.

Ryan-3DS wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:11 pm It's about communication. Verbal communication. As a personal example, I had a conversation with my daughter (22 yr old) while in the car. A Ford F-150 that had been raised by about 18" pulled up next to us. My daughter commented that she wouldn't even be able to get into the truck- it didn't have a step or rail for stepping up into the truck. I said it had to be "killer" on the gas mileage. She looked oddly at me. Later that evening she asked why I thought the truck would get suck GOOD mileage being raised. I said it wouldn't. It would get worse mileage because of all the air drag. She then said but you said it would get killer gas mileage. I shook my head..to this generation, "killer" means really good.
So, to my point.

There wasn't really any ambiguity to his original post though, Ryan. Both examples you stated are online. You tried creating ambiguity in it, but that's about it.

You know what a Cloud Network is? It's a WAN. Nobody refers to a WAN as a Cloud Network. We've been working on a WAN forever. Nobody here wants to move to "The cloud" though, because when we're speaking of Cloud, it means having to go through the internet. It adds multiple layers of variables and many of them can't be controlled by the users, therefor leaving plenty of room for piracy or simply down-times caused by 3rd parties such as Dassault updating their Online Services without noticing their users, or the internet provider having down times because of storms.

Confuse them if you can't convince them.

Sometimes, it's hard to tell if platform or user is the problem.

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:53 pm Sometimes, it's hard to tell if platform or user is the problem.
3DEX Error-02.jpg

Cancel the cancelling of the cancel.

AlexLachance wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 3:15 pm Cancel the cancelling of the cancel.

Fit right into the canceling culture.

AlexLachance wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:27 pm There wasn't really any ambiguity to his original post though, Ryan. Both examples you stated are online. You tried creating ambiguity in it, but that's about it.

You know what a Cloud Network is? It's a WAN. Nobody refers to a WAN as a Cloud Network. We've been working on a WAN forever. Nobody here wants to move to "The cloud" though, because when we're speaking of Cloud, it means having to go through the internet. It adds multiple layers of variables and many of them can't be controlled by the users, therefor leaving plenty of room for piracy or simply down-times caused by 3rd parties such as Dassault updating their Online Services without noticing their users, or the internet provider having down times because of storms.

POTENTIAL GASLIGHTING AHEAD

→1 gigabit low latency direct connection with the datacenter
→strict SLA with your provider (additional fee may apply)
→security requirements to have your cloud connection segregated from the general traffic and encrypted (additional fee may apply)
→if something does not work due to the latest update on the platform, just adjust your wOrKfLoW
→if you are dissatisfied, you can download anytime all your company data (incl. DB? revisions? workflows? uploaded documents? what?) within 30 days before complete deletion of the archives. but only if you paid your 99yrs subscription in advance♡ AND you are able to find them all inside the swamp. they will be happy to help you during the migration (additional fee may apply)

Ryan-3DS wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:11 pm It's about communication...
Words have meanings...

There is a LOT of misinformation out there and it is generally caused by people not understanding the terms/words they are using.

A bit rich considering that we get constantly bombarded with marketing speak and managerial word salad from Solidworks and Dassault.
Look at the new license scheme which was so clear and well communicated by the company that even VAR's didn't understand it enough to convey what it actually all meant.
Why would the customers, who are mainly well trained and highly educated professionals, have any issue to understand what the company wants to convey? Could it be because the one signing of on the marketing copy has no clue what the product they are flogging actual does, nor has any interest because at the end of the day the only thing that matters is that he gets to play the back nine on the company dime?

Here's communication for you. When we had a meeting with the sales rep we couldn't get a straight answer concerning some questions we had no matter how I formulated and re-formulated it. In fact there was even an answer we got on one question that was utterly contradicted by an answer on another question and another one got contradicted by information I could find on the official website.
But yeah, sure, blame the customer for not understanding what certain words mean or not using them 'correctly'

Let's call a spade a spade. For instance that the new license scheme (cloud) is a way to bend the customers further and further over the barrel while lessening the amount of lube while telling us that it's all for our benefit and there for we have to pay for SW/VAR bringing the barrel, pay for the barrel, pay extra for a smaller tube of lube (and no, it isn't an option) and pay for the priviledge. And when, not if, the barrel breaks, it's going to be our fault and we'll have to pay to get it fixed, be it time spend or in consultancy fees because the amount we pay each year per seat per license doesn't cover actually hands-on help.

Nothing personal Ryan, you are just the messenger but you might want to consider how to use certain phrases and words to communicate clearly yourself. Before you ask, yes I HATE the entire newspeak idiocy of 3DS because it seems to think that it's entire customer base used to ride the short bus and can't see through the corporate BS because of the use of pastel colorschemes. Asking us to trust them with our data while Dassault/Solidworks/3DS can't even produce an adequate forum or produces websites that barely function and make it look as if I'm using a 28k8 modem connectionn, while in all actuality I'm on fiber cable, doesn't bode well.

To be honest, if there was a valid alternative available for what we do with the program I would be leading the revolt and get us to switch programs but unfortunately there isn't.

/end of rant

Peter De Vlieger wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:31 am Let's call a spade a spade. For instance that the new license scheme (cloud) is a way to bend the customers further and further over the barrel while lessening the amount of lube while telling us that it's all for our benefit and there for we have to pay for SW/VAR bringing the barrel, pay for the barrel, pay extra for a smaller tube of lube (and no, it isn't an option) and pay for the priviledge. And when, not if, the barrel breaks, it's going to be our fault and we'll have to pay to get it fixed, be it time spend or in consultancy fees because the amount we pay each year per seat per license doesn't cover actually hands-on help.

Inflation man

Peter De Vlieger wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:31 am A bit rich considering that we get constantly bombarded with marketing speak and managerial word salad from Solidworks and Dassault.
Look at the new license scheme which was so clear and well communicated by the company that even VAR's didn't understand it enough to convey what it actually all meant.
Why would the customers, who are mainly well trained and highly educated professionals, have any issue to understand what the company wants to convey? Could it be because the one signing of on the marketing copy has no clue what the product they are flogging actual does, nor has any interest because at the end of the day the only thing that matters is that he gets to play the back nine on the company dime?

Here's communication for you. When we had a meeting with the sales rep we couldn't get a straight answer concerning some questions we had no matter how I formulated and re-formulated it. In fact there was even an answer we got on one question that was utterly contradicted by an answer on another question and another one got contradicted by information I could find on the official website.
But yeah, sure, blame the customer for not understanding what certain words mean or not using them 'correctly'

Let's call a spade a spade. For instance that the new license scheme (cloud) is a way to bend the customers further and further over the barrel while lessening the amount of lube while telling us that it's all for our benefit and there for we have to pay for SW/VAR bringing the barrel, pay for the barrel, pay extra for a smaller tube of lube (and no, it isn't an option) and pay for the priviledge. And when, not if, the barrel breaks, it's going to be our fault and we'll have to pay to get it fixed, be it time spend or in consultancy fees because the amount we pay each year per seat per license doesn't cover actually hands-on help.

Nothing personal Ryan, you are just the messenger but you might want to consider how to use certain phrases and words to communicate clearly yourself. Before you ask, yes I HATE the entire newspeak idiocy of 3DS because it seems to think that it's entire customer base used to ride the short bus and can't see through the corporate BS because of the use of pastel colorschemes. Asking us to trust them with our data while Dassault/Solidworks/3DS can't even produce an adequate forum or produces websites that barely function and make it look as if I'm using a 28k8 modem connectionn, while in all actuality I'm on fiber cable, doesn't bode well.

To be honest, if there was a valid alternative available for what we do with the program I would be leading the revolt and get us to switch programs but unfortunately there isn't.

/end of rant

@Peter De Vlieger,
Quit beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel about the marketing speak and the path forward DS has chosen...

I believe DS know what they're doing.
They removed phone, email and all type of support. They know their target clown crowd.

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:46 pm I believe DS know what they're doing.
They removed phone, email and all type of support.
3DEX Error-03.jpg

They know their target clown crowd.

cloud meets clown?

Clown on cloud

@Frederick_Law,
Maybe these are the clowns in the cloud? Looks like a full cloud circus to me...

My boss inquired our VAR about SW roadmap as we are quite anxious about pdm future: there is none (that they want us to see) and (at the moment) until SW 2025 pdm is going to be supported in full.
they admit there is a tool to migrate pdm to the pLaTfOrM, but it is under develpment and far from usable at its current state.

So there are "apparently" many years down the road until a full PDM migration.

If you were me would you trust them?

btw in the meanwhile SW support told me that CAD admin dashboard should be available at the beginning of november. I did not tell them that, well 99% of the time, I cannot log in In the dashboard , but a couple of times the dashboard(no admin rights) shown and once I was able to download the spreadsheet report of our workstarions... sEcUrItY iN tHe ClOuDs

mp3-250 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:59 pm So there are "apparently" many years down the road until a full PDM migration.

If you were me would you trust them?

Well we saw how they "migrated" a forum to the platform.
How far can you throw air?

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:07 pm Well we saw how they "migrated" a forum to the platform.
How far can you throw air? ~~~~

bUt ThIs TiMe iS gOiNg To Be DiFfErEnT

This is sad and disheartening.

Foreshadowing?

Can they get any longer title?

And the bike with permanent training wheels up front. Great idea.

mattpeneguy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:06 am Foreshadowing?
image.png

To bad I am going to get a colonoscopy that day.

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:35 am Can they get any longer title?

And the bike with permanent training wheels up front. Great idea.

I believe that's a bike designed for handicapped people. The trike with its two wheels in front for balance, the body strap in the middle, and the leg rests up front.

I think the point was that it's all 3DXperince Works, nothing about the desktop works.

bnemec wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 5:10 pm I think the point was that it's all 3DXperince Works, nothing about the desktop works.

I haven't watched the replay of that Nov video yet. Did anyone watch it? Curious to hear some feedback.