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Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:17 pm
by CarrieIves
Is anyone using the the electronics cooling module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation? Can you bring in a board that has already be laid out in Allegro or Altium with layer/copper information? How well does that work?
Thanks,
Carrie
Re: Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:54 am
by the_h4mmer
@CarrieIves I've never attempted this, but I believe there is integration between Solidworks and Altium, I just don't know to what extent and/or if that would be included with the electronics cooling module. I have a little experience using this module and can say there's quite a lot it can do out of the gate, but worst case you could enter the necessary specifications for the components to run a simulation. In fact, I'd suggest simplifying the model to the basic bare bones of what you need to run a simulation for, otherwise you may end up heating the office for a week running the simulation.
As an aside, I wish I had more opportunity to work with Flow and the electronics module. The little I got to work with it felt like I was barely scraping the surface of what was possible and I was only fumbling my way thru using the built in documentation. Would love to hear about or see what you're working on (if it's possible at all to share), especially the visuals (they're always a crowd pleaser).
Re: Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:52 am
by CarrieIves
We did get a quote on SolidWorks Flow and the cooling module. We have added it our comparison. We have a potential project that has a very intense thermal management design. We don't have the project yet. We may not get budget for software until we get the project.
Re: Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:43 pm
by the_h4mmer
Make sense for sure. The Flow package is quite expensive, but it is incredible with what it does! We actually are investigating a short term license of ~3 months (way less than the full purchase) for a project, something to consider if the needs are shorter term (when the project lands). Best of luck!
Re: Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:38 am
by zwei
Have you considered using ANSYS ICEPAK?
We normally use ANSYS ICEPAK for thermal simulation.
I mostly use it for system level thermal simulation but had not done enough board level simulation to comment on that, but i do know that it can import traces layout
(The only complaints i have with ICEPAK so far is its interface that is kind of outdated and not really intuitive)
ANSYS also have elastic-license which is kind of pay-per-use and may fit your need better.
Re: Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:19 am
by the_h4mmer
@CarrieIves so, I ended up asking this question directly to my VAR (relative to my project, but inspired by your question) and there is a means of doing this if you have Solidworks Premium. CircuitWorks allows you to import IDF data exported from Altium or whatever PCB design tool, that will populate a Solidworks CAD model from the board layout. There is an option in CircuitWorks to add thermal data to the components, but as far as I'm aware, it doesn't import automagically (although my VAR made it seem that way). So, the answer to your question is yes, you can pull in data from PCB design software, but the thermal information for components seems like it still could be manual (unless you know how to include it when exporting from your PCB design software).
More about CircuitWorks compatibility here:
http://help.solidworks.com/2021/english ... erview.htm
@Zhen-Wei Tee I have not used anything ANSYS to date, but that's merely a lack of opportunity. My experience thus far in the professional world is that employers don't want to train YOU, but expect you to get the experience/training elsewhere. I don't have the funds to pay for a license and/or training course out of pocket, and perhaps could take a University course, but free time is scarce and expensive to come by these days....I'm always interested to learn more about ANY software for thermal analysis, so if you have any recommendations on how to gain access or training for low cost, I'm interested to hear!
Re: Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:40 am
by CarrieIves
We've gotten quotes on Flotherm, Icepak, Coolit, Simscale, and SolidWorks Flow Simulation with electronics cooling. (The electronics cooling is a separately priced add on.) I'm not sure that I can share pricing, but Flotherm, Icepak, and Coolit were all in the same ballpark on pricing. They were about 3 times as much as SolidWorks Flow with the Electronics cooling module. Icepak and Coolit both have shorter license terms than the full year available. Flotherm is fully integrated with SolidWorks. It looked really nice and was priced accordingly. Flowtherm, Icepak, and Coolit could all import PCB information from ECAD software.
SimScale is interesting. It is fully online and does a variety of simulations. It doesn't look like it will be able to do as in depth an analysis as what we need for the project we are looking at, but for less in depth things, it looks promising. It is priced just under SolidWorks Flow with the Electronics cooling module. They do have different levels of expected usage that affect the pricing. There is a free version but your simulations are not going to be private with the free version (similar to how OnShape was when I tried it several years ago). I have started using the free version (one tutorial so far, then work got busy) to get a feel for it. It claims to be able to use OnShape models natively.
We are talking with SmartCFD tomorrow.
Then, we have the most difficult step, getting the budget approved for whichever we select.
Re: Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:55 am
by zwei
CarrieIves wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:40 am
We've gotten quotes on Flotherm, Icepak, Coolit, Simscale, and SolidWorks Flow Simulation with electronics cooling. (The electronics cooling is a separately priced add on.) I'm not sure that I can share pricing, but Flotherm, Icepak, and Coolit were all in the same ballpark on pricing. They were about 3 times as much as SolidWorks Flow with the Electronics cooling module. Icepak and Coolit both have shorter license terms than the full year available. Flotherm is fully integrated with SolidWorks. It looked really nice and was priced accordingly. Flowtherm, Icepak, and Coolit could all import PCB information from ECAD software.
Just curious, any of them offer perpetual license?
the_h4mmer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:19 am
@Zhen-Wei Tee I have not used anything ANSYS to date, but that's merely a lack of opportunity. My experience thus far in the professional world is that employers don't want to train YOU, but expect you to get the experience/training elsewhere. I don't have the funds to pay for a license and/or training course out of pocket, and perhaps could take a University course, but free time is scarce and expensive to come by these days....I'm always interested to learn more about ANY software for thermal analysis, so if you have any recommendations on how to gain access or training for low cost, I'm interested to hear!
I agree that getting external training approved is WAAAY harder. To be honest, i too had never go through any proper training. Most of my simulation knowledge was self taught...
Most of the training material i referred to is their own tutorial and user guide which can be download from ANSYS website
Re: Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:16 pm
by CarrieIves
@Zhen-Wei Tee ,
FloTherm, Coolit, and SolidWorks Flow have perpetual licenses. They were 2-3 times the annual license. Flotherm and SolidWorks Flow have an annual support fee with the perpetual license. Our notes say Coolit didn't have the annual support fee.
SmartCFD has an option of a perpetual license also. It looks like it would be a really good option if you need to model heat pipes and similar things. This software is sold by Boyd, who makes a lot of thermal products. They use it themselves as they design thermal solutions to sell.
Re: Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:56 am
by luizfbraz
CarrieIves wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 10:40 am
We've gotten quotes on Flotherm, Icepak, Coolit, Simscale, and SolidWorks Flow Simulation with electronics cooling. (The electronics cooling is a separately priced add on.) I'm not sure that I can share pricing, but Flotherm, Icepak, and Coolit were all in the same ballpark on pricing. They were about 3 times as much as SolidWorks Flow with the Electronics cooling module. Icepak and Coolit both have shorter license terms than the full year available. Flotherm is fully integrated with SolidWorks. It looked really nice and was priced accordingly. Flowtherm, Icepak, and Coolit could all import PCB information from ECAD software.
SimScale is interesting. It is fully online and does a variety of simulations. It doesn't look like it will be able to do as in depth an analysis as what we need for the project we are looking at, but for less in depth things, it looks promising. It is priced just under SolidWorks Flow with the Electronics cooling module. They do have different levels of expected usage that affect the pricing. There is a free version but your simulations are not going to be private with the free version (similar to how OnShape was when I tried it several years ago). I have started using the free version (one tutorial so far, then work got busy) to get a feel for it. It claims to be able to use OnShape models natively.
We are talking with SmartCFD tomorrow.
Then, we have the most difficult step, getting the budget approved for whichever we select.
In the end, which software did you get approved for?
I didn't know that Flotherm is fully integrated with SolidWorks, although the interface seems pretty similar from a few videos I watched. I noticed that some manufacturers provided .ecxml file when asked, which is native to Flotherm as far as I am concerned. Sounds interesting to get a ready-to-use file. Unfortunately, according to my reseller, Solidworks does not intend to incorporate this type of file.
I am currently working with Flow Simulation with the electronics cooling module, but I'm getting a little frustrated with the results. I can't blame the software yet because I am working through trial and error. I might get some quotes from online courses and hopefully, the company will approve it.
Re: Electronics cooling Module in SolidWorks Flow Simulation
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:38 am
by CarrieIves
In the end, the project we were quoting that would have needed this, ended up not happening, so we didn't go with anything. I have played a little with the online free Simscale. I have seen they have a connector to SolidWorks now, but they didn't when I played with it.