CAD Forum

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:00 pm**

Well, we have struck a nerve somewhere. We have a steady flow of people making bogus logins, but not all trolls have the same goals. Most bogus stuff is from general internet hacks, but lately some of it has been specifically from the CAD world.

Generally I have pretty thick skin, but I really don't want to get in the middle of a CAD cat fight. I used to do that kind of stuff, so I can say with some authority that nobody really wins, and everybody comes away looking bad.

I'm very appreciative that this group of people has been very supportive of this site and its mission. I know you've taken the fight to the SWamp, and I can tell there is someone who is bitter about being outflanked. Thanks, and I really, really appreciate the support.

But, we might not have to rub their failure in their face all that hard. I'm sure someone somewhere has taken several trips to the woodshed over this.

Maybe you all could take it easy on them a little bit. They already know they've effed up and how badly, and I'm sure it's more than a little embarrassing. I don't want to tell you what to say or do, I'd just ask that you tone it down a little because they are lashing out, and we need to avoid a huge scene.

Not many of you were around about 9 years ago when my blog essentially went to war with some DS/SW people over what was then known as Solidworks v6, which is essentially what the 3dx stuff is now. They wound up with a lot of egg on their face, and had to backtrack on a lot of what was said publicly. It was so ugly, I took my Solid Edge sabbatical. This is really the same thing over nearly the same issue - transition to Catia-based Solidworks, but with the added kicker of the forum thrown in just to have something even more explosive. The fact that I'm in the middle of it again I'm sure isn't helping things at all.

Just maybe back off a little. Allow them a little dignity. I think they know how badly they've screwed up.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:23 pm**

Ditto. I'm pulling up my lawn chair and glass of lemonade to watch the parade!

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:14 pm**

I've stayed away from their new "forum", other than checking in once in a while to see if it's gotten better. It hasn't.

You said they have realized their mistake, which is good, but it leads to a question. Are they going to do anything about it? If they move to a user friendly platform I'll be more than happy to go back. I can make time to follow two Solidworks forums.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:59 pm**

Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:14 pm Are they going to do anything about it?....

That's the thing. 10 years ago they were able to stop the gears that were in motion, but this is a little different. I'm sure they are still committed to moving people off of desktop, and it might have worked if they were dealing with a less popular product. They've been kind of trapped by SW's popularity. They keep stabbing it, but it Just. Won't. DIE!!!

Plus, they're trapped because they can't go back to the old forum. Well, they could, but they'd have to hire some old Jive employees who knew the system to keep it going. That boat may have sailed. If they can't make this SWamp stuff float, they may lose more than credibility.

They're kind of in a corner, which I think is maybe why they're lashing out.

The craziest thing is that making something people could relate to took so little time. Between the time Glenn egged me on to do it and the time the site was ready to go cost somewhere on the order of 2 hours and about $15. On a $3.99/month server that I'm already using for other things. I might (should) have spent more time thinking about the name, but I knew the window of opportunity was small. So the rumor that we can't afford to continue is pure BS. They've got some user stooge making up stuff and spreading crap about the site, pretending like he knows something.

I think it shows they're trying hard to force that square peg into a round hole. CAD users know how that turns out.

Posted: **Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:13 pm**

I've pretty much gone radio silent on their "forum". I've debated commenting and liking posts but decided to not give it any additional activity. If few are using the site, maybe they'll get the message and do something.

I'm not holding my breath, just look at some of the other non-solidworks communities, very little participation, mostly DS and resellers. They just don't get that their format is not ideal.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:33 am**

matt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:59 pm ...
The craziest thing is that making something people could relate to took so little time.

What make it more funny is that DSS seem to think that USER DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WANT...
I had been studying some UX design for a while (partly because of how bad the SWYMP is) and realize that the SWYMP literally goes against all UX design principle

Not to mention how "SLOW" they are trying to move/improve stuff...

I will try to cut off my SWYMP addiction for now

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:39 am**

Maybe side-stepping a little bit..
I really appreciate what is happening to this forum so far.

Unlike the SWYMP, changes had been fast.
→ I had requested strikethrough feature and within 24hr it is implemented
→ Someone had feedback about the subforum grouping and changes had been made..

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:41 am**

Anyone else checking questions in SWYM and linking to an answer already posted here on the CADforum?

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:34 am**

Zhen-Wei Tee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:39 am Maybe side-stepping a little bit..
I really appreciate what is happening to this forum so far.

Unlike the SWYMP, changes had been fast.
→ I had requested strikethrough feature and within 24hr it is implemented
→ Someone had feedback about the subforum grouping and changes had been made..

Thanks for noticing. I'm still working on the "best answer" option. Some changes are easy and some aren't. I can't implement every suggestion, but I try to do the ones that benefit the most people.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:45 am**

matt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:00 pm Well, we have struck a nerve somewhere. We have a steady flow of people making bogus logins, but not all trolls have the same goals. Most bogus stuff is from general internet hacks, but lately some of it has been specifically from the CAD world.

Generally I have pretty thick skin, but I really don't want to get in the middle of a CAD cat fight. I used to do that kind of stuff, so I can say with some authority that nobody really wins, and everybody comes away looking bad.

I'm very appreciative that this group of people has been very supportive of this site and its mission. I know you've taken the fight to the SWamp, and I can tell there is someone who is bitter about being outflanked. Thanks, and I really, really appreciate the support.

But, we might not have to rub their failure in their face all that hard. I'm sure someone somewhere has taken several trips to the woodshed over this.

Maybe you all could take it easy on them a little bit. They already know they've effed up and how badly, and I'm sure it's more than a little embarrassing. I don't want to tell you what to say or do, I'd just ask that you tone it down a little because they are lashing out, and we need to avoid a huge scene.

Not many of you were around about 9 years ago when my blog essentially went to war with some DS/SW people over what was then known as Solidworks v6, which is essentially what the 3dx stuff is now. They wound up with a lot of egg on their face, and had to backtrack on a lot of what was said publicly. It was so ugly, I took my Solid Edge sabbatical. This is really the same thing over nearly the same issue - transition to Catia-based Solidworks, but with the added kicker of the forum thrown in just to have something even more explosive. The fact that I'm in the middle of it again I'm sure isn't helping things at all.

Just maybe back off a little. Allow them a little dignity. I think they know how badly they've screwed up.

Besides my one reply yesterday, I haven't been giving them too much of a hard time, I feel the same was as you do.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:00 am**

matt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:59 pm
Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:14 pm Are they going to do anything about it?....
That's the thing. 10 years ago they were able to stop the gears that were in motion, but this is a little different. I'm sure they are still committed to moving people off of desktop, and it might have worked if they were dealing with a less popular product. They've been kind of trapped by SW's popularity. They keep stabbing it, but it Just. Won't. DIE!!!

Plus, they're trapped because they can't go back to the old forum. Well, they could, but they'd have to hire some old Jive employees who knew the system to keep it going. That boat may have sailed. If they can't make this SWamp stuff float, they may lose more than credibility.

They're kind of in a corner, which I think is maybe why they're lashing out.

The craziest thing is that making something people could relate to took so little time. Between the time Glenn egged me on to do it and the time the site was ready to go cost somewhere on the order of 2 hours and about $15. On a $3.99/month server that I'm already using for other things. I might (should) have spent more time thinking about the name, but I knew the window of opportunity was small. So the rumor that we can't afford to continue is pure BS. They've got some user stooge making up stuff and spreading crap about the site, pretending like he knows something.

I think it shows they're trying hard to force that square peg into a round hole. CAD users know how that turns out.

We do know how that turns out. It involves using a loft feature.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:03 am**

I'm not sure why you guys are hitting that site so hard. Just let it die. We have a new forum here that is at least as good, if not better, than the Jive mess. I'm here for information, not to hold a grudge against DSS stupid decisions.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:09 am**

SPerman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:03 am I'm not sure why you guys are hitting that site so hard. Just let it die. We have a new forum here that is at least as good, if not better, than the Jive mess. I'm here for information, not to hold a grudge against DSS stupid decisions.

One thing is, we need more people over here... There is no way we can adjust their way of thinking, but there are a lot of people needing help, easier doing it here then over there. The site won't die, they will revamp it enough to retain some sanity.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:20 am**

matt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:59 pm
Glenn Schroeder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:14 pm Are they going to do anything about it?....
That's the thing. 10 years ago they were able to stop the gears that were in motion, but this is a little different. I'm sure they are still committed to moving people off of desktop, and it might have worked if they were dealing with a less popular product. They've been kind of trapped by SW's popularity. They keep stabbing it, but it Just. Won't. DIE!!!

Plus, they're trapped because they can't go back to the old forum. Well, they could, but they'd have to hire some old Jive employees who knew the system to keep it going. That boat may have sailed. If they can't make this SWamp stuff float, they may lose more than credibility.

They're kind of in a corner, which I think is maybe why they're lashing out.

The craziest thing is that making something people could relate to took so little time. Between the time Glenn egged me on to do it and the time the site was ready to go cost somewhere on the order of 2 hours and about $15. On a $3.99/month server that I'm already using for other things. I might (should) have spent more time thinking about the name, but I knew the window of opportunity was small. So the rumor that we can't afford to continue is pure BS. They've got some user stooge making up stuff and spreading crap about the site, pretending like he knows something.

I think it shows they're trying hard to force that square peg into a round hole. CAD users know how that turns out.

I realize they can't go back to the Jive platform, but there are dedicated forum platforms out there that they could move to. This is one. XenForo is a user friendly option that I've mentioned (maybe about 6 times in different places).

And maybe they are in a corner. Another metaphor would be that they've dug themselves a hole. When that happens you won't get out if you keep digging.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:31 am**

Thank you so much for posting this @matt

I have been hemming and hawing about doing something similar and here it is.

We need to remember that they are real people with real issues and real families. Harassing someone for following instruction when potentially their family's food on the table is at stake is a bit much.

But we are here now. Stop kicking them while they are down.

Gentleness and respect....(yeah, sometimes I suck at those as well.....and I need a reminder sometimes)

Again, thank you for posting this.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:37 am**

I think that the real questions lie here!

#1 - Is this Forum the Long Term answer for all SolidWorks assistance?
#2 - Will @matt be running this Forum till he's a 100 years old?
#3 - What happens when the "Heat of the Moment" cools off, will we stay here?
#4 - Since we can't pull from the Old Forum Archives, do the regular guys need to keep switching back and forth?

My answer to to every point above is "No", so that will leave the next generation with a useless pc of junk, unless, we make noise. DSS understands that, it's not about money, their gamble is that they will outlive all other means of communication to the Past World Of The SolidWorks Forum.

And.... That is why we need to keep making noise, getting it at least semi user friendly, or switch to another Software. Matt can't afford to stick a fork in the uncooked Turkey, he is too vested in SW, we can and we will.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:02 am**

Roasted By John wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:37 am I think that the real questions lie here!

#1 - Is this Forum the Long Term answer for all SolidWorks assistance?
#2 - Will @matt be running this Forum till he's a 100 years old?
#3 - What happens when the "Heat of the Moment" cools off, will we stay here?
#4 - Since we can't pull from the Old Forum Archives, do the regular guys need to keep switching back and forth?

My answer to to every point above is "No", so that will leave the next generation with a useless pc of junk, unless, we make noise. DSS understands that, it's not about money, their gamble is that they will outlive all other means of communication to the Past World Of The SolidWorks Forum.

And.... That is why we need to keep making noise, getting it at least semi user friendly, or switch to another Software. Matt can't afford to stick a fork in the uncooked Turkey, he is too vested in SW, we can and we will.

I respectfully disagree.

#1- Why not? DSS has proven themselves to be out of touch with their user base.
#2- Just because Matt decides to retire in the next 50 years doesn't mean this site dies.
#3- Where else will you go? Not to mention, for those of us looking at alternatives, this site means we don't have to join a whole new world and feel our way through it.
#4- Do you think DSS will ever make the Swymp fully functional as an archive? I have my doubts.......
And, give us 2-3 years and there will be a massive amount of knowledge stored here that is easy to access.

Why give up now? We need some more noobs to ask questions....and then we'll never look back.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:09 am**

Too bad I'm not a betting type of guy, but this would be big stakes, the booker would love you and hate me

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:11 am**

Roasted By John wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:37 am I think that the real questions lie here!

#1 - Is this Forum the Long Term answer for all SolidWorks assistance?
#2 - Will @matt be running this Forum till he's a 100 years old?
#3 - What happens when the "Heat of the Moment" cools off, will we stay here?
#4 - Since we can't pull from the Old Forum Archives, do the regular guys need to keep switching back and forth?

#1 - I don't think that is the goal of this, or any forum.
#2 - If it is popular, this site will outlive all of us. I'm doubt SW will even exist 10 years from now, but CAD will.
#3 - Absolutely.
#4 - No. Stay here and forget about that other place.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:12 am**

I'd win another one

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:45 am**

matt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:00 pm Well, we have struck a nerve somewhere. We have a steady flow of people making bogus logins, but not all trolls have the same goals. Most bogus stuff is from general internet hacks, but lately some of it has been specifically from the CAD world.

Generally I have pretty thick skin, but I really don't want to get in the middle of a CAD cat fight. I used to do that kind of stuff, so I can say with some authority that nobody really wins, and everybody comes away looking bad.

I'm very appreciative that this group of people has been very supportive of this site and its mission. I know you've taken the fight to the SWamp, and I can tell there is someone who is bitter about being outflanked. Thanks, and I really, really appreciate the support.

But, we might not have to rub their failure in their face all that hard. I'm sure someone somewhere has taken several trips to the woodshed over this.

Maybe you all could take it easy on them a little bit. They already know they've effed up and how badly, and I'm sure it's more than a little embarrassing. I don't want to tell you what to say or do, I'd just ask that you tone it down a little because they are lashing out, and we need to avoid a huge scene.

Not many of you were around about 9 years ago when my blog essentially went to war with some DS/SW people over what was then known as Solidworks v6, which is essentially what the 3dx stuff is now. They wound up with a lot of egg on their face, and had to backtrack on a lot of what was said publicly. It was so ugly, I took my Solid Edge sabbatical. This is really the same thing over nearly the same issue - transition to Catia-based Solidworks, but with the added kicker of the forum thrown in just to have something even more explosive. The fact that I'm in the middle of it again I'm sure isn't helping things at all.

Just maybe back off a little. Allow them a little dignity. I think they know how badly they've screwed up.

You sound like an upstanding guy Matt. There's very little to be gained by continuing the slander against what they made. It's tough to resist the temptation though. It's too bad that is has to be this way. I saw the posts with a bunch of all caps ranting about how to unsubscribe to the SE sub-forum, at first I took the bait, then I realized they were spamming. I assumed it was some disgruntled individual acting alone. Maybe I misread your post but it almost sounds like the big dog allegedly hired the equivalent of an internet thug to go beat up the little guy? That's just disappointing if that's what actually happening.
This makes me think of when training a horse or stock dog, you don't release pressure for wrong action. It's not until they give to the correction that the pressure is removed. In this case they did wrong, corrective pressure was applied, they lash out and pressure is removed; that's the equivalent of enforcing bad behavior. But, I suppose this isn't training and classical conditioning doesn't apply when you're dealing with giants. The other big difference is that in training an animal the trainer >must< bridle his/her emotions and keep the responses constructive and not as an attack otherwise the working relationship will crumble. Much of the responses towards DSS and SW have not be constructive.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:51 am**

Roasted By John wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:37 am I think that the real questions lie here!

#1 - Is this Forum the Long Term answer for all SolidWorks assistance?
#2 - Will @matt be running this Forum till he's a 100 years old?
#3 - What happens when the "Heat of the Moment" cools off, will we stay here?
#4 - Since we can't pull from the Old Forum Archives, do the regular guys need to keep switching back and forth?

My answer to to every point above is "No", so that will leave the next generation with a useless pc of junk, unless, we make noise. DSS understands that, it's not about money, their gamble is that they will outlive all other means of communication to the Past World Of The SolidWorks Forum.

And.... That is why we need to keep making noise, getting it at least semi user friendly, or switch to another Software. Matt can't afford to stick a fork in the uncooked Turkey, he is too vested in SW, we can and we will.

I think you're missing the point John.

First off, this forum doesn't need to be the long term answer for *ALL* SolidWorks assistance, because as you also know, the long term answer needs to come from their side and not the user side. This forum was also built with the idea of englobbing everything about CAD, not just SolidWorks. If this forum answers most, or some of the SolidWorks assistance, and does a better job at it then SolidWork's own assistance, then it will definetly put them to shame and force them in a different direction. Just think about all the money they'd be losing out on.

Second point, being about Matt. I agree with you, he's not going to run this forever, but that doesn't mean he can't sell it to someone eventually, or pass the torch, or have partners come in and what-not. Let's face it, I doubt SolidWorks will be here in 100 years

Third, I don't know about you but I'm definetly not going to the swamp if it there is not a complete overhaul, so yeah, sticking here seems like a great option. The faces are familiar, the people are cool, Matt's actually forking in a lot of efforts right now to set this place up and I have no doubt that he will bring it to be a success.

As for archives, this one will grow, the old forum archive will eventually fade away because it will be just that - an archive.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:05 am**

Another ching ching for me, maybe I will start gambling, this could be fun rollin in the dough

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:06 am**

matt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:00 pm Well, we have struck a nerve somewhere. We have a steady flow of people making bogus logins, but not all trolls have the same goals. Most bogus stuff is from general internet hacks, but lately some of it has been specifically from the CAD world.

.....

Just maybe back off a little. Allow them a little dignity. I think they know how badly they've screwed up.

You do this for free. I pay DS for support a good portion of which SHOULD be available in a forum form. In my opinion the fact that DS has had so little presence on the other forum, is in my opinion, just poor customer service.

I think bogus log ins, harassment, etc etc is not the way to go and I don't do it. However if I have something I think is reasonable to say, complaint, compliment or otherwise....gonna say it.

You state "You think they've learned their lesson". I tend to disagree with that whole heartedly. Not only do I do not think they've learned their lesson they have very little intention of changing anything.

I stick to the same thing I've been saying for a year or more over at the other forum. A decision has been made at the highest level that the future of SW is not desktop. 3DX, new kernal, complete revamp are all on the table but Desktop has been deemed obsolete.

The transition to the 3DSwym platform is PART OF that plan not a mistake made. So in the eyes of upper management there is no lesson to be learned here, only marching orders.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:08 am**

dpihlaja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:31 am Thank you so much for posting this @matt

I have been hemming and hawing about doing something similar and here it is.

We need to remember that they are real people with real issues and real families. Harassing someone for following instruction when potentially their family's food on the table is at stake is a bit much.

But we are here now. Stop kicking them while they are down.

Gentleness and respect....(yeah, sometimes I suck at those as well.....and I need a reminder sometimes)

Again, thank you for posting this.

Dan, agree with your sentiment and all that you say except for putting food on the table. I don't think I've seen any negative comments towards the individuals at DSS/SW who are working in the trenches just doing their jobs. I'm convinced that the people calling the shots are not worried about putting food on the table. BUT, they do have feelings and we should be nice as you say.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:10 am**

AlexLachance wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:51 am If this forum answers most, or some of the SolidWorks assistance, and does a better job at it then SolidWork's own assistance, then it will definetly put them to shame and force them in a different direction. Just think about all the money they'd be losing out on.

How are they or how would they every lose money by someone else doing the VAR's jobs for free? This forum and others like it are DSS's dream. It's free labor for them and has been over at the other place for years. Why do you think that there has been almost zero DS presence on the other forum? It doesn't cost them anything and there's no need as long as everyone answers the issues for free.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:16 am**

dpihlaja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:31 am But we are here now. Stop kicking them while they are down.

Need to finish them off when they're down. Or else they'll get up and hit you from behind.

I like John Wick's style.
Give them a head shot just incase

We can play dirty, they cannot.
They're in a corporate website with everything reflect on the corporate.
We can talk $#!+ here, ban people left right and center without much consequence.
We're all professionals. We'll take responsibility of our own action.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:18 am**

MJuric wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:10 am
AlexLachance wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:51 am If this forum answers most, or some of the SolidWorks assistance, and does a better job at it then SolidWork's own assistance, then it will definetly put them to shame and force them in a different direction. Just think about all the money they'd be losing out on.

How are they or how would they every lose money by someone else doing the VAR's jobs for free? This forum and others like it are DSS's dream. It's free labor for them and has been over at the other place for years. Why do you think that there has been almost zero DS presence on the other forum? It doesn't cost them anything and there's no need as long as everyone answers the issues for free.

@MJuric

The only thing missing in your comment is - They do need to make their Forum Work, it is set up as an income stream, they will work it and they will correct some if not all of their short comings in the Swym, if they get it somewhat right think of the Captive Audience Marketing.... and that is where the dust will settle, they don't want this forum to operate.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:24 am**

Roasted By John wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:18 am
MJuric wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:10 am
AlexLachance wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:51 am If this forum answers most, or some of the SolidWorks assistance, and does a better job at it then SolidWork's own assistance, then it will definetly put them to shame and force them in a different direction. Just think about all the money they'd be losing out on.

How are they or how would they every lose money by someone else doing the VAR's jobs for free? This forum and others like it are DSS's dream. It's free labor for them and has been over at the other place for years. Why do you think that there has been almost zero DS presence on the other forum? It doesn't cost them anything and there's no need as long as everyone answers the issues for free.
@MJuric

The only thing missing in your comment is - They do need to make their Forum Work, it is set up as an income stream, they will work it and they will correct some if not all of their short comings in the Swym, if they get it somewhat right think of the Captive Audience Marketing.... and that is where the dust will settle, they don't want this forum to operate.

I'm not seeing the income stream from the free public forum. The income stream is from the 3DSwym platform usage at the company level that people are paying for. Few if any of those paying customers are clamoring for a "Forum like" usage. That's not how you run a company. You run a company with teams and small manageable groups....which what the 3DSwym platform actually does fairly well.

Why would they make changes to a product to suit the needs of the "Non payers" at the detriment to the "Paying customers"? That's not going to happen.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:28 am**

MJuric wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:24 am Why would they make changes to a product to suit the needs of the "Non payers" at the detriment to the "Paying customers"? That's not going to happen.

They built a closed gate community and try to make it a public playground.
Go play while you still can.

DS probably getting $#!+ from both side.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:02 am**

Edit: for some reason I can't quote mr Juric.
There's a few reasons. Internet traffic is worth a lot more then what most people think, so "having" traffic is worth money. That alone costs them money in ad-revenue lost and it costs them revenue in visibility and much more.

Also, if this forum were to become so good that we outperform VAR's, it means they are losing money on paying VAR's. It also means they aren't doing things right and leaving a bad taste in a client's mouth often costs companies on the long run. So that's another factor that would cost them money.

There's no DS presence on this forum because they are not allowed to represent DS on here, simple as that.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:10 am**

MJuric wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:24 am
Roasted By John wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:18 am
MJuric wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:10 am

How are they or how would they every lose money by someone else doing the VAR's jobs for free? This forum and others like it are DSS's dream. It's free labor for them and has been over at the other place for years. Why do you think that there has been almost zero DS presence on the other forum? It doesn't cost them anything and there's no need as long as everyone answers the issues for free.
@MJuric

The only thing missing in your comment is - They do need to make their Forum Work, it is set up as an income stream, they will work it and they will correct some if not all of their short comings in the Swym, if they get it somewhat right think of the Captive Audience Marketing.... and that is where the dust will settle, they don't want this forum to operate.
I'm not seeing the income stream from the free public forum. The income stream is from the 3DSwym platform usage at the company level that people are paying for. Few if any of those paying customers are clamoring for a "Forum like" usage. That's not how you run a company. You run a company with teams and small manageable groups....which what the 3DSwym platform actually does fairly well.

Why would they make changes to a product to suit the needs of the "Non payers" at the detriment to the "Paying customers"? That's not going to happen.

Cha Ching in my coffers again, kind of fun (wish it were real money)

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:26 am**

AlexLachance wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:02 am Edit: for some reason I can't quote mr Juric.
There's a few reasons. Internet traffic is worth a lot more then what most people think, so "having" traffic is worth money. That alone costs them money in ad-revenue lost and it costs them revenue in visibility and much more.

What Ad revenue? I haven't seen a single add other than DS posting of the latest DS stuff. Maybe that will be added in the future but that platform has been up for years and there's nothing on there yet.

AlexLachance wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:02 am Also, if this forum were to become so good that we outperform VAR's, it means they are losing money on paying VAR's. It also means they aren't doing things right and leaving a bad taste in a client's mouth often costs companies on the long run. So that's another factor that would cost them money.

There's no DS presence on this forum because they are not allowed to represent DS on here, simple as that.

Again, not seeing how this works. I have no idea what the mechanics of VARs being paid is, but that in mind. I would assume that VAR's get some portion of sales and maintenance income. I would also assume they are not getting paid by the incident from DSS. DS income is not effected at all whether the VARs sit around and do nothing all day or not. In fact if we did all the VAR's work for them I would suspect DS would negotiate new terms where they got an even bigger chunk.

FWIW I'm not suggesting that is the case at all. I suspect that the percentage of people that search out forum help versus VAR help is relatively small so even if forums like this and others did 100% of the online stuff VAR would still have plenty to do.

How much has DSS responded to the "Bad taste in the mouth" in the past? Honestly when you look at Solidworks world, TTL, Forum, requested changes and on and on have they shown a historic aversion to leaving a bad taste in the mouth of their customers?

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:28 am**

Roasted By John wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:37 am #1 - Is this Forum the Long Term answer for all SolidWorks assistance?
#2 - Will @matt be running this Forum till he's a 100 years old?
#3 - What happens when the "Heat of the Moment" cools off, will we stay here?
#4 - Since we can't pull from the Old Forum Archives, do the regular guys need to keep switching back and forth?

#1 - Nope, but so does the SWYMP. Changes will comes, its just about making the RIGHT changes.
#2 - Nope, but if this forum is active enough, there will be more than 1 way to keep the torch
#3 - Well... I dont have any other place to go, so Yes? Unless DSS can prove me wrong
#4 - This really an interesting question and depend on a lot of thing... Personally i do switch back and forth between different sources sometimes (eg: ENG-Tips, VAR blog, etc, etc), but none of them require login like the SWYMP... So i really dont know... (I had been complaining very long about how PTC require login to see their customer support Q&A, but at least they dint require a login for their forum)

I do agree that we have all the rights to complain (hey we PAY for support when we purchase the subscription license), just dont over-do it like Matt said.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:29 am**

Another thing to consider: Every time you go there, you are increasing their click count. I'm sure there is a marketing guy somewhere who considers that a success, regardless of the content you post.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:35 am**

SPerman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:29 am Another thing to consider: Every time you go there, you are increasing their click count. I'm sure there is a marketing guy somewhere who considers that a success, regardless of the content you post.

Which is good. Give them a false sense of success.
Now management need to fight with marketing.
"The site doesn't work, no useful info."
"Don't care, traffic is traffic. No good or bad."

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:42 am**

MJuric wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:26 am What Ad revenue? I haven't seen a single add other than DS posting of the latest DS stuff. Maybe that will be added in the future but that platform has been up for years and there's nothing on there yet.

Oh there's ads, they're just not as evidently pointed out. Don't worry, there are people who pay DS to get their advertisement out. Just think of all the communities that we are all inside without even knowing them. Sure, some of them are directly DS related, but not all of them.

MJuric wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:26 amHow much has DSS responded to the "Bad taste in the mouth" in the past? Honestly when you look at Solidworks world, TTL, Forum, requested changes and on and on have they shown a historic aversion to leaving a bad taste in the mouth of their customers?

To be frank, they've done a lot of bad decisions, but they have also been one of the few companies to show the "ability" and "willingness" to retract on certain aspects. Maybe not as much as we'd all like, but still, you gotta start somewhere.

Edit: And now no problem quoting you, weird..

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:46 am**

There is a big difference in "Goading" someone to do something, it is a totally different thing to call an individual "Stupid" - There are a few things that don't show in a forum setting, one is "Tone Of Voice" which can represent "Being Fed Up and Pissed or Sarcasm" - I'm the Ahole that gets snarky..

I will say this though, sitting in the corner doing nothing, what does that represent? That, won't work from this side of the Mississippi..

I have nothing to loose, I'll be away from SW shortly, with no need to follow this or any other forum, so why am I picking on DSS, because, there are people coming up behind us wanting to learn, wanting to find what we left behind, wanting to fast forward their SW knowledge (we couldn't do that when we started), looking at what our generation accomplished with SW will give them inspiration and a drive to do better. Did you ever listen to how the next generation is listening and viewing content, no not that 84" TV nor the 36" laptop.

The 3DExperience is here to stay, we need to step up and make noise while we can...

Anybody see this...

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:04 pm**

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:16 am
dpihlaja wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:31 am But we are here now. Stop kicking them while they are down.
Need to finish them off when they're down. Or else they'll get up and hit you from behind.

I like John Wick's style.
Give them a head shot just incase

We can play dirty, they cannot.
They're in a corporate website with everything reflect on the corporate.
We can talk $#!+ here, ban people left right and center without much consequence.
We're all professionals. We'll take responsibility of our own action.

Uh...

Uh...
We can make this work as a positive example. Love your enthusiasm, might want to work on boundaries a little

They had something that people loved, and they screwed it up. That goes for the forum and moving forward, it's going to go for the software as well. I can do something about the forum, but I can't make a CAD program that recaptures the original Solidworks spirit. I don't think there's a product out there right now that does. But that's why this forum keeps its options open. You need to be looking around for another product you like, once they pull the plug on this one. None of this is any surprise.

Jeff Ray said this a long time ago:

https://dezignstuff.com/jeff-ray-killed ... mbalms-it/
https://dezignstuff.com/jeff-ray-looks-to-the-horizon/
https://dezignstuff.com/bernard-charles ... t-the-end/
https://dezignstuff.com/has-solidworks-lost-their-mojo/
https://dezignstuff.com/blood-in-the-water/

I believe DS still has these values. Not sure they are the same values as their customers.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:02 pm**

: joker sad-01.jpg (11.18 KiB) Viewed 30122 times

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:23 pm**

On one hand our "hate" or complain result in retaliating reaction.
On the other hand, some in DS could use us to prove a point they might be fighting all along.

There are replies from employees that are not "hostile". I believe they were fighting a losing battle before. Now they found allies.

Posted: **Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:02 pm**

I have no sympathy for DSS or their representatives.

But when the actions of members of this forum reflect badly on Matt, and create extra work for him dealing with the fallout, it's probably time to stop.

Posted: **Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:41 pm**

I've got attention of someone important.
If you guys want action, contact him.
Get involve and get the changes you went.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:40 pm**

I agree, Matt, and recall my own hearty blog (and insider testing) participation from that era, and in hindsight I would not have been so openly brutal.

I recall showing up to a regional SWUG meeting and Richard Doyle knew who I was as soon as I walked into one of their sessions---and this was NOT a good recognition, but one more of dread. Why? Because I was so publicly brutal about some mis-steps by the company he worked for and perhaps some things he had his own hands on. I'm sorry about that Richard. My method was completely incorrect (this only visible to me in hindsight, unfortunately). Ultimately, these are real people with real qualities who ought not be reduced to the sum of their errors. ("Treat people how you'd like to be treated.")

Besides, what I said so publicly and flagrantly back then didn't change things. We're seeing some of the results of that now, where the out-of-touch hubris is continuing to cause big problems for SW customers. That's the sort of thing we should all expect to happen when design-by-corporate-committee gets together to brew up a solution that removes functional tools they like in exchange for broken ham-fisted tools that (apparently) serve the interests of an out-of-touch corporation long-divorced from the input of paying customers.

Notice to the high and mighty corporate structures: Stumble into blind/deaf hubris at your own risk. Blowback's a (female dog), and your customer base can be a harsh mistress.

For at least a generation I've seen the large no longer control the small, but often the nimble eat the lunch of the slow. Become too sclerotic and you'll begin losing appendages to the nimble fish. Lose too many appendages (such as a helpful working forum) and the market will scream for viable alternatives. Such a vacuum is eventually filled by new nimble fish.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:51 pm**

The irony is that many of the people leaving SW will move to F360 or Onshape, reinforcing their belief that cloud based cad is the future, and the desktop product is dying.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:04 pm**

idesignhaus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:40 pm I agree, Matt, and recall my own hearty blog (and insider testing) participation from that era, and in hindsight I would not have been so openly brutal.

I recall showing up to a regional SWUG meeting and Richard Doyle knew who I was as soon as I walked into one of their sessions---and this was NOT a good recognition, but one more of dread. Why? Because I was so publicly brutal about some mis-steps by the company he worked for and perhaps some things he had his own hands on. I'm sorry about that Richard. My method was completely incorrect (this only visible to me in hindsight, unfortunately). Ultimately, these are real people with real qualities who ought not be reduced to the sum of their errors. ("Treat people how you'd like to be treated.")

Besides, what I said so publicly and flagrantly back then didn't change things. We're seeing some of the results of that now, where the out-of-touch hubris is continuing to cause big problems for SW customers. That's the sort of thing we should all expect to happen when design-by-corporate-committee gets together to brew up a solution that removes functional tools they like in exchange for broken ham-fisted tools that (apparently) serve the interests of an out-of-touch corporation long-divorced from the input of paying customers.

Notice to the high and mighty corporate structures: Stumble into blind/deaf hubris at your own risk. Blowback's a (female dog), and your customer base can be a harsh mistress.

For at least a generation I've seen the large no longer control the small, but often the nimble eat the lunch of the slow. Become too sclerotic and you'll begin losing appendages to the nimble fish. Lose too many appendages (such as a helpful working forum) and the market will scream for viable alternatives. Such a vacuum is eventually filled by new nimble fish.

Very well said!!!!

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:52 pm**

I've missed this topic when it began. I agree and disagree. It's excruciatingly simple to me: I am not using their site. I do not care for it to improve, or to exert one joule to help or criticize. I've already walked away, and have cringed over these past weeks to read that others are beating what I see as a dead horse. I'm not one to tell folks what to do, so I'm very pleased that Matt asked others to tone it down. Besides being a futile effort, it tarnishes an individual's online reputation to be rude. I haven't even bashed SWYM here, let alone bothered to put it under their nose. IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.

I'm still using SolidWorks and not switching software. Problems and lessons still exist. Here has eclipsed There in its usefulness. I don't need two sites to view, let alone one PITA half-site and this functional site.

I really didn't previously believe the ongoing friction between users and the direction of the corporation, but now I get it when it's right in my face. Now I believe in the killing off of what I have grown used to; what my company has invested into. Furthermore, I'm questioning the personal value of attending VAR launch events, SWUGN, and any other extensions of participating in a community they foster. Although I had wanted to, now I doubt that I will ever attend a World event. (Edit: I had been asked to participate in beta testing before, but now would laugh openly at that opportunity.) As I spoke to a fellow gamer last night, "the game can change, but it's the people that make up a good community that retains my attention." I don't appreciate theirs anymore. I see good people here. My cynicism has won. Nothing improves, and I can like it. I'm still greatly productive and expanding my own skill set.

Somewhat off-topic, if we had really got their goat, they'd merely buy up this forum and kill it. That doesn't prevent a reproduction and rebirth, which has been demonstrably fast, simple and cheap. Killing this would also bring the belligerents back to their ear. I'm happier away from them.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:02 pm**

Tom G wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:52 pm if we had really got their goat, they'd merely buy up this forum and kill it.

Ok I'll make sure not to screw up Matt's retirement.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:12 pm**

Tom G wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:52 pm I've missed this topic when it began. I agree and disagree. It's excruciatingly simple to me: I am not using their site. I do not care for it to improve, or to exert one joule to help or criticize. I've already walked away, and have cringed over these past weeks to read that others are beating what I see as a dead horse. I'm not one to tell folks what to do, so I'm very pleased that Matt asked others to tone it down. Besides being a futile effort, it tarnishes an individual's online reputation to be rude. I haven't even bashed SWYM here, let alone bothered to put it under their nose.IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.

Yes, thanks for just saying it like that. That's exactly how I feel. I think some people here are unnaturally attached to something that's gone that someone is leading them on to think is coming back. Just move on, it's gone. Build something new. Nostalgia has its place. Technology is not one of them.

Posted: **Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:32 pm**

Tom G wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:52 pm I've already walked away

Just need some where to channel my negative energy .....

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