CAD Forum

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 2:44 pm**

So, I don't usually have to deal with threads and I don't normally use the hole wizard (I just model my holes, novel).

Anywho....what is the preferred method if you want to use this? I have a bearing carrier with a 6 hole bolt pattern that I want to place as a feature. I recall something with using points in sketches and doing it that way, and then adding holes to the points, but I couldn't quite work it out myself nor find the previous threads on the old forum.

Any takers?

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 2:50 pm**

Hole Wizard is VERY easy to use and to get right. Just pick the hole you want, for instance an M6 threaded thru hole, and then you have a tab for Positions. It sounds like that is what you missed. Positions automatically selects the Point icon so you just put the points where you want the holes. Toggle that Point icon off and then dimension the points or constrain them the way you want to control them and presto you have your holes.

Besides automatically sizing the holes and doing the sketches for us, one of the best things about the Hole Wizard is that these will populate the drawing with the proper hole callout and number of instances. IMHO, if you aren't using Hole Wizard you are making your CAD life more difficult than it has to be.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 2:53 pm**

The Hole Wizard has a lot of benefits when it comes to making drawings, patterns, mating toolbox parts, and other stuff. Avoid making detailed threads, and use the cosmetic thread option. This will help with performance, and simplify your drawings. No one needs to see the thread geometry unless you are 3D printing your part, or making something very non-standard.

If you start the Hole Wizard with a plane selected, your hole center points will all be in a 2D plane. If you start it without a plane selected, your points go into a 3D sketch, which allows you to have hole centers on multiple levels, but it also complicates sketching a lot.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 2:56 pm**

Besides automatically sizing the holes and doing the sketches for us, one of the best things about the Hole Wizard is that these will populate the drawing with the proper hole callout and number of instances.

This is the primary reason I DON'T normally use the hole wizard. I have no need of this aspect and seem to call out my holes just fine. I haven't used it in awhile, but I actually found previous callouts to be formatted differently than our standards and too cumbersome to edit. It was easier to just use regular dimensioning.

So, just to clarify, I'm supposed to place the holes and THEN dimension/constrain the points?

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 3:00 pm**

jmongi wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 2:56 pm So, just to clarify, I'm supposed to place the holes and THEN dimension/constrain the points?

It's a wizard, let it walk you through. Specify Type, then specify Positions. Use the tabs.

Oh, I got that 3D sketch thing screwed up. It seems they fixed that. You get a 2D sketch unless you hit the 3D sketch button on the Positions tab.

3D sketches allow holes on different levels and in different directions.

: image.png (16.01 KiB) Viewed 4637 times

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 3:06 pm**

I use the Hole Wizard extensively for drilled holes and slots, though not so much for threads. My preferred method, that I've used for many years, is to create a stand-alone sketch first, then when I get to the hole wizard feature I just drop the points coincident with end points, mid points, etc from my driving sketch. It only takes a few seconds.

Using the Hole Wizard has multiple benefits, such as inserting and mating one set of hardware, then using the Hole Wizard feature to drive a Pattern Driven Component Pattern to place the rest. Another benefit is using a Hole Callout in the Drawing.

You mentioned a 6 hole bolt pattern. Below is a Part I'm working on right now that has several hole wizard features. Below is the sketch I used to drive one of them, with the result. By the way, as you can see, I really like using the Center Rectangle sketch tool. I usually make the outside lines construction, but it's not really necessary.

Another "by the way"; I typically pre-select the face before starting the Hole Wizard feature. That eliminates the issue above that @matt brought up. As soon as I go to the second page of the feature manager the point sketch is automatically active.

Here is another example from the same Part.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 3:07 pm**

matt wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 3:00 pm
Oh, I got that 3D sketch thing screwed up. It seems they fixed that. You get a 2D sketch unless you hit the 3D sketch button on the Positions tab.

Or if I'm not mistaken pick a non planar surface. So it automatically puts you into a 3D sketch if you pick a cylinder or some other non planar object.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 3:16 pm**

is to create a stand-alone sketch first, then when I get to the hole wizard feature I just drop the points coincident with end points, mid points, etc from my driving sketch. It only takes a few seconds

So, I tried that, but I think I was adding an additional unnecessary layer and that was what was causing the problem. So, once I create my driving sketch, I can place the holes on the sketch endpoints without creating ADDITIONAL 3D points. I think that's where I tripped myself up.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 3:26 pm**

Hmm...I guess some of my issue is that trying to polar array sketch points seems...different...

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 3:38 pm**

Without Hole Wizard, how do you know a hole on model is just drilled or taped?
Remember all the tape drill size?

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 3:43 pm**

jmongi wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 3:26 pm Hmm...I guess some of my issue is that trying to polar array sketch points seems...different...

You can do circular patterns in the position sketch.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 3:52 pm**

jmongi wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 3:16 pm So, I tried that, but I think I was adding an additional unnecessary layer and that was what was causing the problem. So, once I create my driving sketch, I can place the holes on the sketch endpoints without creating ADDITIONAL 3D points. I think that's where I tripped myself up.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Just to be clear, my driving sketch is completely independent of the Hole Wizard feature, and shows above it in the tree. The only entities in my Hole Wizard sketch are the sketch points that define the hole locations.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 4:08 pm**

matt wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 3:43 pm You can do circular patterns in the position sketch.

Indeed. But then I still need to constrain the resultant pattern, so...seems less useful since I want points and those points get generated by sketch geometry needed to constrain those points. Unless I'm doing something terribly wrong (which is possible).
And, it seemed slightly more flaky than the feature patterning (of course, it's probably me that's flaky).

@Frederick_Law - So, I guess I'm too used to being a one man band. That's a good consideration. It's weird. It's possible I'm misremembering, but when I first started using SW again in 2018 I remember reading a lot of consternation about the hole wizard and whether it was worth using or not. Maybe that whole idea is a moot point at this time.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 4:34 pm**

jmongi wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 4:08 pm It's possible I'm misremembering, but when I first started using SW again in 2018 I remember reading a lot of consternation about the hole wizard and whether it was worth using or not. Maybe that whole idea is a moot point at this time.

Sure you're not thinking about the ToolBox rather than the hole wizard? I don't know of too many people not using the Hole Wizard but there's quite the disagreement about whether to use the Tool Box or not.

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 5:26 pm**

My thinking is along the same lines as @MJuric...
should I be concerned?...need to check my temperature...maybe I'm not over covid?

Posted: **Thu May 06, 2021 5:59 pm**

jmongi wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 4:08 pm ...It's possible I'm misremembering, but when I first started using SW again in 2018 I remember reading a lot of consternation about the hole wizard and whether it was worth using or not. Maybe that whole idea is a moot point at this time.

The Hole Wiz is the thing that makes Toolbox almost worth using. When it works according to "the vision", it's a beautiful thing. But you have to check a lot of boxes before you get to "the vision".

Posted: **Fri May 07, 2021 7:58 am**

mattpeneguy wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 5:26 pm My thinking is along the same lines as @MJuric...
should I be concerned?...need to check my temperature...maybe I'm not over covid?

Welcome to the Dark Side....

Posted: **Fri May 07, 2021 8:02 am**

matt wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 5:59 pm The Hole Wiz is the thing that makes Toolbox almost worth using. When it works according to "the vision", it's a beautiful thing. But you have to check a lot of boxes before you get to "the vision".

To me the hole wizard is a complete no brainer. I can not imagine any other method of placing holes that would come even close. Sure like anything else to get 100% out of it you have to do a little set up, but even out of the box it's better than any other method.

Toolbox usage will really depend on what you're using it for, how often and what your needs are.

Posted: **Fri May 07, 2021 1:02 pm**

I use the hole wizard in a similar way to Glenn Schroeder. However, I do not define the hole positions in the wizard but already in the sketch. With the wizard I also insert only one hole. At the top left, at the place with the circle, there is no sketch point for the hole in the sketch. I then use the hole and the sketch with the points to create a sketch pattern.

It is important to check "Geometry pattern" in the menu of the sketch pattern. This setting has a great influence on the speed....

: image.png (15.86 KiB) Viewed 4547 times

For comparison, the performance comparison when the holes are all positioned in the Wizardt

: image.png (14.76 KiB) Viewed 4547 times

Posted: **Fri May 07, 2021 2:09 pm**

Hansjoerg wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 1:02 pm ...
It is important to check "Geometry pattern" in the menu of the sketch pattern. This setting has a great influence on the speed....
...

This is true, but it only works where every instance of the hole is exactly the same. It won't work on multiple level holes, or holes that intersect other features. Geometry Pattern is a great thing to use, but you also have to be ready and know what to do when it fails (basically turn it off).

Posted: **Sat May 08, 2021 10:07 am**

Hansjoerg wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 1:02 pm I use the hole wizard in a similar way to Glenn Schroeder. However, I do not define the hole positions in the wizard but already in the sketch. With the wizard I also insert only one hole. At the top left, at the place with the circle, there is no sketch point for the hole in the sketch. I then use the hole and the sketch with the points to create a sketch pattern.
image.png
It is important to check "Geometry pattern" in the menu of the sketch pattern. This setting has a great influence on the speed....
image.png image.png
For comparison, the performance comparison when the holes are all positioned in the Wizardt

image.png

Two each their own but aren't you just complicating it by manually creating what the hole wizard already does internally? The hole wizard is just a hole feature and sketch driven pattern in one. Separating is out just means a larger tree to deal with and organize. We have panels with hundreds of holes for mounting various mechanical and electrical components so the tree is already large enough with 50+ holes wizard features.

Posted: **Sat May 08, 2021 7:10 pm**

IMHO yes, it does complicate things, and gives no performance or practical benefit other than they like it that way. As you said, whatever floats your boat.

Posted: **Fri May 21, 2021 2:38 pm**

Y'all seem to like the hole wizard a lot, so maybe I am using it wrong or didn't get things set up right. Can you let me know what I need to change to make this actually useful? Mostly, I am putting in thru, untapped holes. If I need a tapped hole, then I am likely to use the hole wizard, but otherwise, I don't find it any faster.

So, one of the reasons I don't use the hole wizard is changing my hole size is harder in the hole wizard. If I have created a circle in a sketch, I just double click on the dimension to change the size, typing in the new size I need. For a hole wizard hole, I have to go redefine the feature to change the size.

Also, finding the right size. Am I missing settings I need to change? For drilled holes, if I use the hole wizard, I get drill sizes. It's not too bad for metric holes, but for inch holes, I have to go look up what the drill size that matches my decimal value is. And the list of drill sizes if you pick "all sizes" is crazy long.

The "close, normal, loose" fits for the screw clearances don't always match what I want. I know that you can "show custom sizing" and change the hole value. You can also change the value of the hole size in the sketch. So, I put a hole in one of my parts to see what happened. I changed the value in the sketch to 6mm diameter. The feature tree still shows the hole at 3mm.

Posted: **Fri May 21, 2021 2:48 pm**

CarrieIves wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:38 pm Y'all seem to like the hole wizard a lot, so maybe I am using it wrong or didn't get things set up right. Can you let me know what I need to change to make this actually useful? Mostly, I am putting in thru, untapped holes. If I need a tapped hole, then I am likely to use the hole wizard, but otherwise, I don't find it any faster.

So, one of the reasons I don't use the hole wizard is changing my hole size is harder in the hole wizard. If I have created a circle in a sketch, I just double click on the dimension to change the size, typing in the new size I need. For a hole wizard hole, I have to go redefine the feature to change the size. You can double click on the HW feature/sketch as well.

Also, finding the right size. Am I missing settings I need to change? For drilled holes, if I use the hole wizard, I get drill sizes. It's not too bad for metric holes, but for inch holes, I have to go look up what the drill size that matches my decimal value is. And the list of drill sizes if you pick "all sizes" is crazy long. That's the imperial system for ya

The "close, normal, loose" fits for the screw clearances don't always match what I want. I know that you can "show custom sizing" and change the hole value. You can also change the value of the hole size in the sketch. So, I put a hole in one of my parts to see what happened. I changed the value in the sketch to 6mm diameter. The feature tree still shows the hole at 3mm. You can save favorites if it doesn't match what you want. That's what I had to do before the PEM standards were a part of the HW database.

HW makes it easier to populate assemblies with hardware (faster rebuilds), have hole counts updated on hole call outs, call out standard drill sizes, on and on and on. I have run into people not calling out he correct hole sizes for PEMs, multiple hole sizes because the circles aren't constrained correctly, etc which all adds up to remaking parts = $$$

Posted: **Fri May 21, 2021 3:42 pm**

CarrieIves wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:38 pm Y'all seem to like the hole wizard a lot, so maybe I am using it wrong or didn't get things set up right. Can you let me know what I need to change to make this actually useful? Mostly, I am putting in thru, untapped holes. If I need a tapped hole, then I am likely to use the hole wizard, but otherwise, I don't find it any faster. I also rarely have tapped holes, but I use the Hole Wizard feature often. If you only have one hole, then no, it isn't faster or better, but if you have multiple holes that will have hardware in an Assembly the Pattern Driven Component Pattern is a big time saver.

So, one of the reasons I don't use the hole wizard is changing my hole size is harder in the hole wizard. If I have created a circle in a sketch, I just double click on the dimension to change the size, typing in the new size I need. For a hole wizard hole, I have to go redefine the feature to change the size. It's just as easy to change the hole sizes with the Hole Wizard. I keep Instant 3d turned on, so a single click on the feature in the tree displays the dimensions in the graphics area. I click on the dimension, enter the new value, and it updates immediately.

That may not change the default name of the feature, since it will include the size, but I often rename those anyway, and when I don't I ignore it.

Also, finding the right size. Am I missing settings I need to change? For drilled holes, if I use the hole wizard, I get drill sizes. It's not too bad for metric holes, but for inch holes, I have to go look up what the drill size that matches my decimal value is. And the list of drill sizes if you pick "all sizes" is crazy long. See the screenshot below.

The "close, normal, loose" fits for the screw clearances don't always match what I want. I know that you can "show custom sizing" and change the hole value. You can also change the value of the hole size in the sketch. So, I put a hole in one of my parts to see what happened. I changed the value in the sketch to 6mm diameter. The feature tree still shows the hole at 3mm. I just use the size hole I want instead of worrying which fit the Hole Wizard thinks I should use.

Posted: **Sat May 22, 2021 2:15 pm**

@CarrieIves

You can customize the Hole Wizard some. Go to Start and type "Toolbox" and launch the "Toolbox Settings" application.

: image.png (2.66 KiB) Viewed 4336 times

From there, the tab labeled "1" at the top is the hole wizard. You can go into a standard like "ANSI Inch" and turn on/off hole types and sizes.

You could limit "Screw clearance" holes to only the ones you have tooling for. You can also add new sizes.

You can also copy a standard and create sizes more in line with your company tooling and create custom sizes that aren't "ANSI" standard.

Posted: **Mon May 24, 2021 9:53 am**

Hole wizard is great but sometimes people tend to misuse it...

Just few weeks ago i had come across someone who put a "Tapped hole" using Hole Wizard on a plastic boss...
The hole was suppose to be a pilot hole for self tapping screw...

Posted: **Mon May 24, 2021 9:54 am**

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 2:15 pm You can customize the Hole Wizard some.

Regarding customize hole for Hole Wizard. If i share the file to others who dont have my hole wizard library, can they still edit the hole?

Posted: **Mon May 24, 2021 11:15 am**

Zhen-Wei Tee wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 9:54 am Regarding customize hole for Hole Wizard. If i share the file to others who dont have my hole wizard library, can they still edit the hole?

If you send your entire Hole Wizard to them, yes they will then have access to changing everything in it. If you share a link to yours and control the permissions then they will not be able to.

Posted: **Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:37 pm**

Has anyone found an easy way to update the hole call out file.
When I needed to have the 1-8 UNC THRU to read 1" -8 UNC THRU that was an easy fix. Add the " in the text file.

Now I need to have it read 1.000-8 UNC THRU. How do you get it to show the three decimal places?

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