CAD Forum

Posted: **Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:15 am**

Posted: **Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:49 pm**

Zhen-Wei Tee wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:15 amimage.png

..like an impact hammer?

Posted: **Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:12 am**

SWX beta-testers.

: frustration.gif (260.84 KiB) Viewed 8497 times

Posted: **Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:19 am**

We can be Disruptive

Posted: **Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:37 am**

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:19 am We can be Disruptive

They don't need us, they're disruptive enough without us.

Posted: **Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:33 pm**

Zhen-Wei Tee wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:15 amimage.png

In the open source world beta testers actually have huge impact in the success of changes as well as if and when they are pushed to main stream release. I really appreciate the users that can be beta testers and hate to discourage that. I like to think that the sampling of beta testers is a good representation of the entire data set and not a subset off in one corner of usage. I'd like to know how many companies encourage employees to spend time testing the beta release. In our case all of the work done in beta version would be for that purpose only and those files could not be incorporated into our production data set. Are most beta testers doing so on personal (unpaid) time? Maybe VARs?

Posted: **Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:49 pm**

Nothing happen until user send request to VAR.
Even then user need to convince AR it is a problem.
Then VAR send it up.
Then user might still need to convince the higher up it is a problem.

Do that a few times and you'll give up. Why should I care? When the company making the product don't?

Posted: **Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:51 pm**

bnemec wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:33 pm In the open source world beta testers actually have huge impact in the success of changes as well as if and when they are pushed to main stream release. I really appreciate the users that can be beta testers and hate to discourage that. I like to think that the sampling of beta testers is a good representation of the entire data set and not a subset off in one corner of usage. I'd like to know how many companies encourage employees to spend time testing the beta release. In our case all of the work done in beta version would be for that purpose only and those files could not be incorporated into our production data set. Are most beta testers doing so on personal (unpaid) time? Maybe VARs?

There needs to be incentives for people to do the BETA testing for Dassault. We already pay a hefty sum every year for a program that's not so top.

I'm certainly not throwing our production drawings onto BETA's, I doubt the number of actual real BETA testers is high, especially if it's not forced upon their own VAR's and whatnot, which I also doubt, seeing the number of issues that rise after BETA.

As Fred says, once you've gone through the process of having to argue your eyes out while pulling your hair to explain that it's not an intended behavior a few times, you'll certainly understand the futility in doing "Beta testing" for them.

Posted: **Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:17 pm**

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:49 pm Nothing happen until user send request to VAR.
Even then user need to convince AR it is a problem.
Then VAR send it up.
Then user might still need to convince the higher up it is a problem.

Do that a few times and you'll give up. Why should I care? When the company making the product don't?

edit: shoot, I forgot to use proper formatting,,, fixed it.

Fred, I thought we were talking about Beta here, not main stream releases.

Posted: **Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:29 pm**

2021 is still in Beta.

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:04 am**

The 2016 UI debacle rather stymied my interest in Beta testing. See issue, call out issue, almost universally disliked by Beta testers, they rolled it out anyway and then had to do a load of backtracking in service packs to get to what we said we wanted during Beta testing.

If you're going to get people to test it, you've actually got to act on the feedback. Like so much with DS/SW it's very much "this is what we're doing, deal with it" and the "testing" is in fact just a preview *cough* forum to 3DSwym *cough*.

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:04 am**

dave.laban wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:04 am The 2016 UI debacle rather stymied my interest in Beta testing. See issue, call out issue, almost universally disliked by Beta testers, they rolled it out anyway and then had to do a load of backtracking in service packs to get to what we said we wanted during Beta testing.

If you're going to get people to test it, you've actually got to act on the feedback. Like so much with DS/SW it's very much "this is what we're doing, deal with it" and the "testing" is in fact just a preview *cough* forum to 3DSwym *cough*.

Yep.

Makes me thing of the new Edge. I'm always reluctant to say MicroSoft did something right, but DSS could gain a lot of momentum back if they would learn from MS, Edge Insider Channel. For as bad as the original Edge was with all it's "we know best how you should use a web browser" to all the community input they implemented as they were putting the Chromium based Edge together over the past several years it was an about face. and it worked! I've been using Edge Dev for several years since it was suggested in a forum, watching the updates as they build it out.

It appears that DSS just has it's head in the clouds. History shows the only thing that fixes the problem is when the un/misguided feet stumble and fall; at that point the head comes down out of the clouds. Edge 1.0 was a failure, someone at MS was humble enough to say, "you know, what if we build on the opensource Chromium project and engage that community?"

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:56 am**

What's actually on the menu for SW 2022? What "new" features (that don't work) and icon colors are they planning to come out with in 2022?

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:21 am**

Jaylin Hochstetler wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:56 am What's actually on the menu for SW 2022? What "new" features (that don't work) and icon colors are they planning to come out with in 2022?

What ever it is, it will be DISRUPTIVE !!!

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:31 am**

Jaylin Hochstetler wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:56 am What's actually on the menu for SW 2022? What "new" features (that don't work) and icon colors are they planning to come out with in 2022?

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:32 am**

Jaylin Hochstetler wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:56 am What's actually on the menu for SW 2022? What "new" features (that don't work) and icon colors are they planning to come out with in 2022?

I'll bet that about 10% of what's new is actually related to CAD. The rest is something else, like flow, PDM, IT, ERP, impressionist painting, planting dahlias, stuff like that.

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:38 am**

matt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:32 am I'll bet that about 10% of what's new is actually related to CAD. The rest is something else, like flow, PDM, IT, ERP, impressionist painting, planting dahlias, stuff like that.

Wrong!

3% CAD, 97% PLATFORM.

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:39 am**

0% CAD 100% Innovative!

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:04 pm**

Jaylin Hochstetler wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:56 am What's actually on the menu for SW 2022? What "new" features (that don't work) and icon colors are they planning to come out with in 2022?

These are some of the so call "new" features that i can find for now...

With the new predefined flat pattern views, Kevin finishes his drawing faster than ever before.
With the new ability to create coordinate systems from absolute coordinates and enhanced Quick Mates, Kevin rapidly assembles his components.
They even show a bit of how their blaster was designed and validated using the new linkage rods and more flexible mesh controls in SOLIDWORKS Simulation.

Meanwhile in CREO 8....
Support for multi-hole features (creating multiple holes with single feature)?!

Never thought i will be more excited for CREO new release than SOLIDWORKS....

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:20 pm**

Meanwhile in Solid Edge:

500+ new enhancements including:
-CAD Direct (Import non-native files into assemblies without converting and keep a parametric link.)
-Equation driven curves with sample templates.
-Wrap option for decals.
-Gussets in weldments.

Some of them make it seem like SE is behind on development, but the difference is; they are actively rolling out real enhancements. (I really look forward to CAD Direct so I can use SWX models in SE assemblies.)

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:17 pm**

I watched their seminar and besides the couple of Sync tech enhancements, these are all catchup features. They may work better than Works....not sure about that.

The one not listed above that I would love in 'works is the insert family table for its family of parts. You can insert a design table but you have to spend a lot of time formatting it in the model first. It should be a separate table function with the ability to select what I want to show.

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:57 pm**

I'll be ready to update when SW has a robust, funtioning, dimple feature similar to what Solid Edge has.

No forming tool file to monkey with, one feature and done.

https://blogs.sw.siemens.com/solidedge/ ... and-bead/

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:35 pm**

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:39 am 0% CAD 100% Innovative!

yep, the current buzz words.. innovation and disruptive... marketing trends 101.... you go girl!

Posted: **Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:03 pm**

2022 beta has been in full swing for two days and the 3dx site is a buzz......as in the buzz that a fluorescent light makes in dead silence.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:36 am**

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:03 pm 2022 beta has been in full swing for two days and the 3dx site is a buzz......as in the buzz that a fluorescent light makes in dead silence.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:18 am**

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:03 pm 2022 beta has been in full swing for two days and the 3dx site is a buzz......as in the buzz that a fluorescent light makes in dead silence.

The optimist in me wants to suggest there's some sort of secret / private community for Beta like there was on the old place. Or is there, you're in it and it's still dead?

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:02 am**

dave.laban wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:18 am The optimist in me wants to suggest there's some sort of secret / private community for Beta like there was on the old place. Or is there, you're in it and it's still dead?

Yup, there is. https://r1132100503382-eu1-3dswym.3dexp ... fqQeOuP6Zw. I'm not part of it so I'm not sure what it consists of.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:45 am**

Downloaded, haven't install yet.
Still need to get files for VAR for the memory problem.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:58 am**

Jaylin Hochstetler wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:02 am Yup, there is. https://r1132100503382-eu1-3dswym.3dexp ... fqQeOuP6Zw. I'm not part of it so I'm not sure what it consists of.

So they want you to provide your SN in order to validate you as a member of the community to prove subscription status. Isn't there something in the SW T&Cs that prohibit you from sharing your SN?

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:25 am**

Wow, another Beta community.
Like the one in Beta site is not enough.
Or that got moved to the SwYmP also?

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:54 am**

dave.laban wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:58 am So they want you to provide your SN in order to validate you as a member of the community to prove subscription status. Isn't there something in the SW T&Cs that prohibit you from sharing your SN?

Am I the only one that finds the whole beta thing ridiculous?

"Be part of the SolidWorks Beta, the more on it, the merrier!"
*Puts in place an approval methodology that restrains people*

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:58 am**

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:25 am Wow, another Beta community.
Like the one in Beta site is not enough.
Or that got moved to the SwYmP also?

So what do you call a beta site on a beta site?

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:08 pm**

Double Beta

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:41 pm**

I'm still waiting for Solidworks to pay me for doing their job. Beta testing is THEIR responsibility.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:46 pm**

Uncle_Hairball wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:41 pm I'm still waiting for Solidworks to pay me for doing their job. Beta testing is THEIR responsibility.

I'll disagree and agree with you. Beta testing with end users is common across both software and physical products. Also beta testing doesn't mean that they aren't still testing themselves.

It's voluntary, no one makes you do it, but I welcome the chance to run our products through it. If I do discover a major issue, I have a greater chance of getting it fixed before sp0 than after. And I've had several cases where that happened in the last 20 years.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:01 pm**

Testing Beta is ok.
Beta testing all released SP is not.

And you could get something for your effort:
https://www.solidworks.com/beta/beta-contests.htm

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:08 pm**

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:46 pm
It's voluntary, no one makes you do it, but I welcome the chance to run our products through it. If I do discover a major issue, I have a greater chance of getting it fixed before sp0 than after. And I've had several cases where that happened in the last 20 years.

I will disagree with you. It is not voluntary. Every release is a beta. We have no choice.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:16 pm**

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:46 pm I'll disagree and agree with you. Beta testing with end users is common across both software and physical products. Also beta testing doesn't mean that they aren't still testing themselves.

It's voluntary, no one makes you do it, but I welcome the chance to run our products through it. If I do discover a major issue, I have a greater chance of getting it fixed before sp0 than after. And I've had several cases where that happened in the last 20 years.

Yep, makes complete sense for a company to WANT to install beta and test it on THEIR systems and with their procedures. No matter how much resources you throw at a project you can't test things you don't know about and a whole lot of people are doing a whole lot of things with various software packages that are "Non standard"

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:26 pm**

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:46 pm I'll disagree and agree with you. Beta testing with end users is common across both software and physical products. Also beta testing doesn't mean that they aren't still testing themselves.

It's voluntary, no one makes you do it, but I welcome the chance to run our products through it. If I do discover a major issue, I have a greater chance of getting it fixed before sp0 than after. And I've had several cases where that happened in the last 20 years.

But here is the thing, it would appear to the SW user for several years that most of the subscription money is probably getting diverted into 'add-on' products that you have to pay for.

On top of that my VAR hasn't been exactly great this year - I think I raised 4 issues with them this year and not a lot has been done. It seems it's been getting that way with them for a few years now. Is the VAR's getting pinched too much or is it just lazy? Probably be asking for a discount on subscription next year, I've paid for support and not got it. It's not the first time and there isn't mush defence if nothing was done other than forgetting about your phone call.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:30 pm**

SPerman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:08 pm I will disagree with you. It is not voluntary. Every release is a beta. We have no choice.

The cynic in me agrees but lets face it, no software is released bug free. Hell, no or few physical products are released bug free. I was looking for a TV a while back and was trying to decode the serial number, as different sites had the 'same' TV but the serials were slightly different. Turns out it was revisions of the same TV model. No doubt that TV was released and then issues where addressed in later production runs. Even books have later printings with corrections.

For our industry, we have 'beta' sites where we install a new product for low or no cost and a team of engineers tweaking in a real world setting.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:30 pm**

How can those empty suits say something like this with a straight face?

Have we received the quality we expect?
Have we received the performance we expect?
Have we received the user "experience" we expect? (Personally, I'd say Disney is an experience; not CAD.)
When has Beta last listened to the voices of the users?

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:46 pm**

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:30 pm No doubt that TV was released and then issues where addressed in later production runs. Even books have later printings with corrections.

Still, did your TV work out of the box?
Did you need to call support and update your graphic driver?
Do you need certified cable and electricity?
Did the volume buttons change brightness instead?

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:08 pm**

Frederick_Law wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:46 pm Still, did your TV work out of the box?
Did you need to call support and update your graphic driver?
Do you need certified cable and electricity?
Did the volume buttons change brightness instead?

Well, I bought the later revision code (2019 model). Occasionally the TV locks up, I think it over heats or something. I have called their tech support due to sluggish on screen controls. They had me remove the batteries from my remote and hold down two buttons to reset it or clear the residue electricity on the PCB or something. This helped some but the problem came back. Wifi stinks, I have 1gb fiber but only get a 15-20mb connection on the TV, even with a range extender in the living room. My phone/laptop/Chromebook all get 300mb. No graphics driver I don't think but it does apply a firmware update a couple of times since I've owned it.

In your volume button analogy, what in SolidWorks does something like that? Can't say I ever selected a command and a different command launched. But then again I have 20+ years of SolidWorks stuff rolling around my head and I may have forgotten.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:13 pm**

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:30 pm The cynic in me agrees but lets face it, no software is released bug free.

I understand that. But there used to be a certain level of bug-free-ness that was expected. That bar has been lowered significantly, probably because that is the new microsoft "agile" model.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:15 pm**

LOL You TV must be designed with 3DX

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:49 pm**

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:46 pm I'll disagree and agree with you. Beta testing with end users is common across both software and physical products. Also beta testing doesn't mean that they aren't still testing themselves.

It's voluntary, no one makes you do it, but I welcome the chance to run our products through it. If I do discover a major issue, I have a greater chance of getting it fixed before sp0 than after. And I've had several cases where that happened in the last 20 years.

Given the sort of problems we deal with on a daily basis, I have to disagree that they are doing their own testing. It is readily apparent that they are not, otherwise these problems would never be seen by end users, much less hang around for years and years.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:05 pm**

Uncle_Hairball wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:49 pm Given the sort of problems we deal with on a daily basis, I have to disagree that they are doing their own testing. It is readily apparent that they are not, otherwise these problems would never be seen by end users, much less hang around for years and years.

We can argue about the amount of testing and releasing something too soon, or not fixing stuff fast enough, but come on man, you know they test the software. If not, why are there SPRs fixed between alpha and beta releases if it wasn't caught in some kind of testing?

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:14 pm**

SPerman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:13 pm I understand that. But there used to be a certain level of bug-free-ness that was expected. That bar has been lowered significantly, probably because that is the new microsoft "agile" model.

Yes, but who determines that? How do you even measure it?

I think the perceived level of issues greatly depends on the kind of work you do. If you really push the software hard with complex geometry, huge assemblies, complex drawings, and customization, then you are more likely to encounter issues. I've done plenty of personal work in sp0 releases over the years with no problems what so ever. At my work, we have complex products and designs and lots of automation so I begin testing at sp2 and then typically rollout at sp4. It's quite possible in some release I could rollout sp0 or 1 and have little impact but due to our work its not worth the risk.

Don't get me wrong, I can pick out dozens of things in the software that should work better but most functions work as advertised. Sometimes people act as if the software is non-functional and that is just not true for most of what it's used for.

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:33 pm**

One can always drive a new car with a flat tire. One less spark plug. Doors that won't open.
It is still a functional car that get you from one place to another.
The dealer with have updates in a few months to fix some of those problems.
As long as you're paying for the maintenance package.

If anyone willing to buy a car like that and pay a monthly maintenance fee, please contact me.
I have lots of things and services I can sell you.

Oh wait, there is a car like that.
VW
:p

Posted: **Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:36 pm**

jcapriotti wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:05 pm We can argue about the amount of testing and releasing something too soon, or not fixing stuff fast enough, but come on man, you know they test the software. If not, why are there SPRs fixed between alpha and beta releases if it wasn't caught in some kind of testing?

Exactly. Obviously they test things out. Are they testing things out in the right manner? Are there steps missing in the testing? Are there procedures or do they have documentation to tell them, when they modify lines of codes in specific places, they need to modify other specific instances?

As simple as these questions are, they're often overlooked.

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