If SW Desktop Fell off the face of the earth today...

[matt]

What would you do if SW Desktop ceased to exist today? You get the "Dear CAD" letter, and you have until the end of the day to clear out your things. We will send you a gift certificate for the remainder of your paid subscription.

[SPerman]

I voted for solid edge, but what I would really do is start a serious study of the options. From what I know today, SE is the leading contender, but I've never used it, so that opinion could change.

[MJuric]

I'd guess most people would just jump to 3DE.

The platforms are relatively compatible so if you wanted the quickest route to being back up and running again I'd think that would be the way to go.

A switch to an entirely different system is a huge job especially for companies that have long term legacy data. We're still dealing with files that need to be converted or repaired from being converted to SW on a daily basis from .dwg and we switched to SW in 2006-2008.

If we could just dump everything over to the swamp I'm sure that's what we'd do rather than look at other systems that required migration.

[Roasted By John]

I'd change from a llama farmer to a pig roaster

[Glenn Schroeder]

What would you do if SW Desktop ceased to exist today? You get the "Dear CAD" letter, and you have until the end of the day to clear out your things. We will send you a gift certificate for the remainder of your paid subscription.

I'm not sure, so I didn't vote. Probably SE. Maybe move to 3D Experience, but Dassault has left a bad taste in my mouth the last few years so I certainly wouldn't jump to that without investigating alternatives.

The decision wouldn't be mine to make anyway, though to be honest my recommendation would likely carry a lot of weight.

By the way, do you know something we don't?

[mike miller]

I'd guess most people would just jump to 3DE.

The platforms are relatively compatible so if you wanted the quickest route to being back up and running again I'd think that would be the way to go.

A switch to an entirely different system is a huge job especially for companies that have long term legacy data. We're still dealing with files that need to be converted or repaired from being converted to SW on a daily basis from .dwg and we switched to SW in 2006-2008.

If we could just dump everything over to the swamp I'm sure that's what we'd do rather than look at other systems that required migration.

Based on Solidwork's dismal track record with EXISTING data inside the same program ( re: crusty file template gotcha), I don't trust them with transferring data not only from one program to another, but from one kernel to another (Parasolid to V6).

What could possibly go wrong with the current "leaders" at the wheel of DSS?

[Ömür Tokman]

I've never been fond of online programs (I couldn't get used to them), it might sound silly, but I can't imagine what happens in a two or three-day internet outage.
"a poor thing but mine own"

[jcapriotti]

Solid Edge, they are closest to SolidWorks in how it operates. Maybe NX if I could afford it but I'm guessing I can't. It actually feels more like SolidWorks than most others.

3DXWorks: Subscription only, no thanks
Inventor: Subscription only, no thanks
Creo: Subscription only, no thanks
Onshape: I really like it but feel PTC will kill it. No way they are getting an ROI on what they paid for it.

[Frederick_Law]

Clean up the T-Square

[matt]

...
By the way, do you know something we don't?

Sometimes it seems like it when someone expresses hope that SW is going to suddenly come to their senses and resurrect 2005.

But no, I don't know anything you don't.

[SPerman]

Dassault has left a bad taste in my mouth the last few years so I certainly wouldn't jump to that without investigating alternatives.

I will have a very hard time ever giving Dassault another penny. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it would have to be extreme circumstances for me to consider it.

[MJuric]

Based on Solidwork's dismal track record with EXISTING data inside the same program ( re: crusty file template gotcha), I don't trust them with transferring data not only from one program to another, but from one kernel to another (Parasolid to V6).

What could possibly go wrong with the current "leaders" at the wheel of DSS?

From what I understand the SW 3DE software runs on the parasolid kernal. The only things that run on the V6 kernal is the "New" stuff like Xdesign etc. I brought this up on the 3DS forum and was told by a DSS employee that this was the case. I've been looking for the post but because that place is such a $#!+ hole I can't even find my own posts.

Essentially the discussion was surrounding this very subject, transitioning to 3DS SW and the way it was put was that 3DS SW was essential desktop with access to the cloud and with the SWymp integrated into it. The was a list of "Non compatibles", thinks like driveworks, CAMWorks etc but it was also expressed that "This is all being taken care of". In fact one site I posted listed the tool box as not being compatible and supposedly now it is.

[MJuric]

I've never been fond of online programs (I couldn't get used to them), it might sound silly, but I can't imagine what happens in a two or three-day internet outage.
"a poor thing but mine own"

I have a similar concern. What do you do when you loose internet? With everything local I can loose internet and still have access to all my files, have SW work and so on. So manufacturing walks in and asks for an updated print and I have to tell them, "Sorry, can't help you, internet is down".

I just don't think companies are going to want to go there.

[AlexLachance]

If it were to happen, I'd take a good hard look at Inventor, SolidEdge and OnShape. All 3 companies have approached me before to see our needs. SolidEdge would most likely be the one coming out on top because there's truely some interesting things being developed over there that stand out from the competition.

[zwei]

You get the "Dear CAD" letter, and you have until the end of the day to clear out your things.

Wait, you mean we will get a notice ahead of time?
With what happen to the old forum, i thought we will receive the notice only days after they close it down


Anyhow...
It interest me how no one really vote for CREO....(i am the only one vote for CREO at the moment of writing even though CREO is giving me daily headache and WHY moment)
I know CREO and SWX user dun really get a long.. but it seem worst than i think

[bradb]

I also didn't vote because what we would switch to isn't on the list. We are long time KeyCreator users (formerly CadKey) prior to SW and still keep two seats on maintenance for our legacy stuff and it imports files from our overseas suppliers in a more friendlier format than SW. Who doesn't love an imported 700 part file with everything named "Part XXX" and no rhyme or reason as to where things are in the feature tree.
Though I may have some input as to what we would go to, outside of a couple of us that use it on a daily basis for more than looking at geometry to quote or send to the 3d printer the decision would be made by the people with a higher pay grade than me.

[MJuric]

I also didn't vote because what we would switch to isn't on the list. We are long time KeyCreator users (formerly CadKey) prior to SW and still keep two seats on maintenance for our legacy stuff and it imports files from our overseas suppliers in a more friendlier format than SW. Who doesn't love an imported 700 part file with everything named "Part XXX" and no rhyme or reason as to where things are in the feature tree.
Though I may have some input as to what we would go to, outside of a couple of us that use it on a daily basis for more than looking at geometry to quote or send to the 3d printer the decision would be made by the people with a higher pay grade than me.

Wow, CADKey...almost forgot that name. Used it for a very short while in the early 90's. For some reason someone had a copy and then someone had a copy of AutoCAD. Ended up going AutoCAD.

[jcapriotti]

Wait, you mean we will get a notice ahead of time?
With what happen to the old forum, i thought we will receive the notice only days after they close it down


Anyhow...
It interest me how no one really vote for CREO....(i am the only one vote for CREO at the moment of writing even though CREO is giving me daily headache and WHY moment)
I know CREO and SWX user dun really get a long.. but it seem worst than i think

I would've considered Creo but PTC switched to subscription only, you no longer own the software.

[mike miller]

The executives at Siemens have got to be rubbing their hands together with enthusiasm.

That's a pretty incredible consensus.

[MJuric]

The executives at Siemens have got to be rubbing their hands together with enthusiasm.

2021-06-11 10_06_18.jpg

That's a pretty incredible consensus.

I'm not sure that a forum populated by a bunch of disgruntled SW users is an accurate representation of the market

[zwei]

I would've considered Creo but PTC switched to subscription only, you no longer own the software.

Is there even any CAD software that is not subscription base nowadays?

Most software nowadays had switched to subscription only (which i cant say i like it)...

[jcapriotti]

Is there even any CAD software that is not subscription base nowadays?

Most software nowadays had switched to subscription only (which i cant say i like it)...

Still have perpetual licensing (That you'll have to pry from my cold dead fingers):

• SolidWorks
• Solid Edge
• DraftSight
• NX
• Ironcad
• Alibre

Probably a few other lesser known cad tools I can't remember. Also some of the above have a subscription option.

Subscription only (Head in the clouds edition):

• 3dxWorks
• CREO
• CATIA
• Onshape
• Inventor
• Fusion 360

[mattpeneguy]

From what I understand the SW 3DE software runs on the parasolid kernal. The only things that run on the V6 kernal is the "New" stuff like Xdesign etc. I brought this up on the 3DS forum and was told by a DSS employee that this was the case. I've been looking for the post but because that place is such a $#!+ hole I can't even find my own posts.

Your description is too kind.

[mattpeneguy]

I'm not sure that a forum populated by a bunch of disgruntled SW users is an accurate representation of the market

You talking about 3DSywm?...

[jcapriotti]

You talking about 3DSywm?...

I prefer 3DDrown, because that's what it feels like over there. Drowning in posts with no organization.

[Roasted By John]

I prefer 3DDrown, because that's what it feels like over there. Drowning in posts with no organization.

Put this on your Calendar - Sept 2021 you should see huge improvements over at swymn

[mike miller]

I'm not sure that a forum populated by a bunch of disgruntled SW users is an accurate representation of the market

Look at it this way:
-Solidworks desktop doesn't seem to have the greatest life expectancy. (Hey, Captain Obvious)
-Solid Edge has 10% of the userbase that SWX does.
-Solid Edge has dedicated data migration tools (hmmm.......who'du thunk)
-The disgruntled SWX users are a fairly accurate representation of the SWX userbase.

So if Solid Edge can capture even 10% of of the fleeing rats streaming off the SWX ship, they've just doubled their userbase.

[KevinC]

I voted for solid edge, but what I would really do is start a serious study of the options. From what I know today, SE is the leading contender, but I've never used it, so that opinion could change.

I have SE and Inventor and I voted for Inventor.
Inventor is closer to SW in operation and I'm still trying to absorb the benefits of the synchronous workflow in SE.

[KevinC]

I think AI And F360 should be separate choices.

[bnemec]

I'd guess most people would just jump to 3DE.

The platforms are relatively compatible so if you wanted the quickest route to being back up and running again I'd think that would be the way to go.

A switch to an entirely different system is a huge job especially for companies that have long term legacy data. We're still dealing with files that need to be converted or repaired from being converted to SW on a daily basis from .dwg and we switched to SW in 2006-2008.

If we could just dump everything over to the swamp I'm sure that's what we'd do rather than look at other systems that required migration.

You forgot the SARC tag.

[mike miller]

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor ... p/10388590

Ouch. That completely screws you unless you have synchronous technology (IV doesn't). Now you're dealing with a dumb solid AND your program can't compensate for it with real intelligence.

[MJuric]

-The disgruntled SWX users are a fairly accurate representation of the SWX userbase.

It would be interesting to see how true this actually is. I typically find that people that end up in forums are A) people that tend to push the limits B) because they push the limits they run into and get stuck fixing other peoples problems.

In my experience 90% of users of all systems just go to work each day and use whatever tool they are given. If they run into a problem they either pass it off to someone else or cheat and do something stupid like manually entering dimensions. This has been the case since the first line was placed in a basic CAD system.

[bnemec]

What would you do if SW Desktop ceased to exist today? You get the "Dear CAD" letter, and you have until the end of the day to clear out your things. We will send you a gift certificate for the remainder of your paid subscription.

Edge in a heartbeat. It's amazing how fast we forgot all the things we complained about in Edge as we slowly migrate to SW. SW seems on par with SE at providing pet-peeves to gripe about. Then we'd be back to trying to figure out what to use for file management though. PDM Pro doesn't work that great with SE files, we're also asking it to do things it wasn't meant to do.

[jcapriotti]

I have SE and Inventor and I voted for Inventor.
Inventor is closer to SW in operation and I'm still trying to absorb the benefits if the synchronous workflow in SE.

Something else I forgot to bring up about Inventor besides the fact it has gone to subscription only. The license is named user now. There is no longer a floating license option. So we have 150 users sharing 60 SolidWorks licenses. Now we would need 150 Inventor licenses.

SolidWorks Pro: 60 floating licenses at $1645 each = $98,700
Inventor: 150 named user licenses at $2190 each = $328,500

Inventor only has one bundle now that includes everything so its more comparable to SolidWorks Premium. So we could even go to Premium across the company. The catch is we would have to pay a Pro to Premium upgrade fee of around $4000 (I think). 60 Pro to Premium would be roughly $240,000. Then we have the annual maintenance of:

SolidWorks Premium: 60 floating licenses at $2195 each = $131,700

So first year is $371,700 but after the first year and for years after, IV will cost you a lot more.

[SPerman]

I have SE and Inventor and I voted for Inventor.
Inventor is closer to SW in operation and I'm still trying to absorb the benefits of the synchronous workflow in SE.

From the stories I've heard, Autodesk treats their customers just as poorly as dassault.

[bnemec]

Something else I forgot to bring up about Inventor besides the fact it has gone to subscription only. The license is named user now. There is no longer a floating license option. So we have 150 users sharing 60 SolidWorks licenses. Now we would need 150 Inventor licenses.

SolidWorks Pro: 60 floating licenses at $1645 each = $98,700
Inventor: 150 named user licenses at $2190 each = $328,500

Inventor only has one bundle now that includes everything so its more comparable to SolidWorks Premium. So we could even go to Premium across the company. The catch is we would have to pay a Pro to Premium upgrade fee of around $4000 (I think). 60 Pro to Premium would be roughly $240,000. Then we have the annual maintenance of:

SolidWorks Premium: 60 floating licenses at $2195 each = $131,700

So first year is $371,700 but after the first year and for years after, IV will cost you a lot more.

You get what you pay for? maybe?

My personal pref is that Inventor's UI felt nicer, just me. I wonder if there's only one or two users the price difference you mention would be less impact?

I don't have a crystal ball, but I'm worried about SW desktop maint fees starting to climb quickly as DSS tries tactics to push customers to their platform. That's never happened in business before

[Jaylin Hochstetler]

Edge in a heartbeat. It's amazing how fast we forgot all the things we complained about in Edge as we slowly migrate to SW. SW seems on par with SE at providing pet-peeves to gripe about. Then we'd be back to trying to figure out what to use for file management though. PDM Pro doesn't work that great with SE files, we're also asking it to do things it wasn't meant to do.

Maybe you oughta check out DDM. We have plans to implement it in the near future. They are a smaller 3rd party company based in UK and have been in business for 20+ yrs. Beings they are 3rd party they are CAD neutral and can handle SE, SW, IV and other files...

I can't tell you what their software's like beings I haven't used it yet but I was very impressed with what I saw in the demo. Thursday I'm doing training for it so I'll be better able to tell what it's like after then.

[MJuric]

Something else I forgot to bring up about Inventor besides the fact it has gone to subscription only. The license is named user now. There is no longer a floating license option. So we have 150 users sharing 60 SolidWorks licenses. Now we would need 150 Inventor licenses.

SolidWorks Pro: 60 floating licenses at $1645 each = $98,700
Inventor: 150 named user licenses at $2190 each = $328,500

Inventor only has one bundle now that includes everything so its more comparable to SolidWorks Premium. So we could even go to Premium across the company. The catch is we would have to pay a Pro to Premium upgrade fee of around $4000 (I think). 60 Pro to Premium would be roughly $240,000. Then we have the annual maintenance of:

SolidWorks Premium: 60 floating licenses at $2195 each = $131,700

So first year is $371,700 but after the first year and for years after, IV will cost you a lot more.

That's really odd and I can't see how they would expect for this to even work. I was looking at some of the information on this and everything says "At a comparable cost to what you're paying now". They are ending all multi user licenses by May of 2022. So any company like yours where you have a bunch of "Part time users" would be screwed unless they make some sort of deal with you.

right now for people transitioning they are offering a "2 for 1" deal but is that perpetual or just the first year?

Seems like this would be an easy thing to make work. You assign "X" number of seats to "Y" company with unlimited sign in's. When you sign in it's your set up and seat and one license is pulled from the stack.

The way, at least the way it appears to me, is that you have to assign a user to a license and that is not available to anyone else. However they state in a bunch of places you can track usage and adjust accordingly....how you do that seems very vague. If Bob is only using his license 5% of the time you can you just pay 5% of the cost?

[jcapriotti]

That's really odd and I can't see how they would expect for this to even work. I was looking at some of the information on this and everything says "At a comparable cost to what you're paying now". They are ending all multi user licenses by May of 2022. So any company like yours where you have a bunch of "Part time users" would be screwed unless they make some sort of deal with you.

Cost is comparable for heavy users. But we have a lot of users that only use it in waves depending on projects.

right now for people transitioning they are offering a "2 for 1" deal but is that perpetual or just the first year?

This is subscription only and their attempt to make it easier to "swallow". Not sure how long it lasts. At some point you are paying for the extra licenses.

Seems like this would be an easy thing to make work. You assign "X" number of seats to "Y" company with unlimited sign in's. When you sign in it's your set up and seat and one license is pulled from the stack.

They could do that if they wanted to, other software does. This is just a push to named user license because they feel they get more $$$.

The way, at least the way it appears to me, is that you have to assign a user to a license and that is not available to anyone else. However they state in a bunch of places you can track usage and adjust accordingly....how you do that seems very vague. If Bob is only using his license 5% of the time you can you just pay 5% of the cost?

You can probably reassign the license but it's manually done by an administrator. I had to do this with Matlab, it's assigned to a user on their online portal. I had to juggle users on a project to project basis. I don't want to be in the user management business. Luckily we only had 2 licenses, I can't image doing this with CAD.

[SPerman]

Some places only allow you to move licenses a limited number if times. If they wanted you to be able to share licenses, they would give you that option.

[Frederick_Law]

You can probably reassign the license but it's manually done by an administrator. I had to do this with Matlab, it's assigned to a user on their online portal.

Its 2 user name and 2 email address.
You can't really "abuse" the license. You can't have 3 users login at the same time.

As long as finger print and face recognition is not required to login

[zxys001]

They are all loosing focus... maybe another.. https://www.altair.com/inspire/

[nordstjernen740]

From what I understand the SW 3DE software runs on the parasolid kernal.

I think whoever told you this is distorting the truth. non-xapp "3dexperience works" as far as I understand is just solidworks running locally made to looks like it is running on the cloud. My guess is this is what whoever told you that is referring to when they said that "parasolid" is still in use.
Basically same old solidworks with a fancy addin. The files I'm sure are stored in the cloud, (via Enovia) but I'm sure they are cached locally for use.

[m2shell]

Voted for Inventor because I'm curious about the integration between Inventor and AutoCAD. One of my biggest headaches has been preparing submittal-quality shop drawings with Solidworks. Over the years I've learned that SW's drawing interface is too clumsy for the kind of drawings I am required to do, so I have to straddle between Acad & SW. The results have been... mixed.

That said, SE's synchronous is extremely interesting as well, so who knows...

I would be sad to see SW go though. I'm so comfortable with the interface it would be such a big loss.

[Frederick_Law]

Oh SWDT is what hit the moon.

[the_h4mmer]

llama farming

What about alpaca farming!??

I voted research project, since I don't know what I'd go with for sure. If I were to pick something off the cuff, I'd start with OnShape personally. I really liked the document history tracking, as well as the branch and merging features. Not crazy about the cloud based platform, but it's always been there so maybe it hurts less? Seems like Inventor and/or SolidEdge could be reasonable, but I haven't really given either a fair shake to date, so I'd want to try them out first.

[bnemec]

Voted for Inventor because I'm curious about the integration between Inventor and AutoCAD. One of my biggest headaches has been preparing submittal-quality shop drawings with Solidworks. Over the years I've learned that SW's drawing interface is too clumsy for the kind of drawings I am required to do, so I have to straddle between Acad & SW. The results have been... mixed.

You might like SE drawing behaviors, significantly different then SW from what we've learned.

[mattpeneguy]

You might like SE drawing behaviors, significantly different then SW from what we've learned.

The little bit I played with SE drawings, I found some things I really liked. For instance you can grab the edge of a view and drag it to resize. You don't have to create a sketch and crop like in SW. There were a few little things like that I really liked in SE over SW. It also seemed that SE left things where you placed them much better than SW. With SW, it seems I'm constantly moving things back to where they belong in drawings.
From the little bit I used it, it seemed that the SE people were trying to make it easier for SW users to transition. For instance, if you search the help for a SW command, it'll show you the SE equivalent. And, where SE had similar functionality as SW, they look like they really tried to improve upon the functionality. For instance the Mouse Gestures in SE are MUCH more capable than in SW.

[KSHansen]

I first picked Llama farming (retirement), but then I decided I'd find a job that put my Creo skills to use. In reality, I'd probably just try to learn whatever my company picked.

[m2shell]

The little bit I played with SE drawings, I found some things I really liked. For instance you can grab the edge of a view and drag it to resize. You don't have to create a sketch and crop like in SW. There were a few little things like that I really liked in SE over SW. It also seemed that SE left things where you placed them much better than SW. With SW, it seems I'm constantly moving things back to where they belong in drawings.
From the little bit I used it, it seemed that the SE people were trying to make it easier for SW users to transition. For instance, if you search the help for a SW command, it'll show you the SE equivalent. And, where SE had similar functionality as SW, they look like they really tried to improve upon the functionality. For instance the Mouse Gestures in SE are MUCH more capable than in SW.

Interesting - Good to get some info on this. Generally all the comments I get about a software comparison with SW are for the 3d modeling and assembly mechanisms. But my main frustrations with SW come from the drawing interface. So its super helpful to hear some comparisons.

-m